gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: The second is the belief that systems of oppression are implemented not in overt policies like Jim Crow laws but in subtle patterns in language and visual symbols that insidiously instill unconscious bias in everyone I want to pull this out because it I think it bears on an important point. I believe one of the reasons that some on the left have invested to much in the mindset of wokeness and micro-aggression is because it's a neat explanation for why the legal successes of the 60's, which at the time were thought to be the solutions, turned out not to be - at least not a complete enough solution. So the whole micro-aggression/lingusitic/semitoic paradigm arises as an explanation of why we are where we are despite the civil-rights legal reforms. But I think there is a much more straightforward reason that the explicit legal reforms of the 60's failed to effect a complete social solution, and yes it was because they failed to address institutional racism, but not because that institutional racism resides in the language of micro-aggression or unsurfaced personal racial hostility in most of white middle class America. but because it resides in the basic fiber of democracy in a geographically segregated society. You don't need lack of wokenes to explain that resource decisions in a democracy go to the majority, and when the majority (whites) live in districts geographically segregated from where the minority lives, then the places where minorities live get starved for public resources needed to help build social capital in minority society, and thus they can never catch up economically. That is the core of America's problem, not lack of wokeness. But that is a much more terrible and subtle problem to face because it explodes the myth of our democratic perfection. We have to face that to solve that problem the nature and structure of the Union is going to need some corrective surgery, and that will be a very big lift for our society. The only other alternative is for Whites and Blacks and rich and poor to stop trying to live apart from one another so the benefits of a geographically based representative politics get shared more fairly. Either way, not easy stuff. Much easier to explain away the failures of liberalism's great hour of triumph in the 60's by holding that we are just being too mean to each other. That said, there is a fight over basic wokeness that is still needed for America to begin to see the real problem but that fight needs to be redirected. Whites do need to understand that even if they don't really hold Blacks back because of conscious social micro hostility, they do hold them back simply by the way they vote ("innocently" enough I might add) in their own interests. The American system of government is a stacked deck. Edited June 30, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Trump declared a fake state of emergency and effectively did whatever he wanted based on that with no politial recourse or penalty. If Biden doesn't do the same, the Dems are unilaterally disarming. If you want to support unilateral disarming its a free country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 If you think not declaring a fake state of emergency is unilaterally disarming, just wait until Republicans take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 It definitely is unilaterally disarming. I anticipate the GOP declaring fake state of emergencies again if/when they're in office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 One of the reason I chose to elect Biden is to restore the presidency and not just have the liberal version of Trump. I was hoping more Democrats would get elected in congress. Instead, Republicans have overturned Roe and the Democrats are blaming themselves. It's really the typical Democratic voter. They never cared about the Supreme Court. The Republicans held a Supreme Court seat hostage for nearly a year and Democrats still couldn't be bothered to vote. Now that we are facing the consequences of that decision, Democrats expect Biden to pull a rabbit out of his hat to counteract a Supreme Court decision. I don't think these progressives realizes that you don't just get to rebuild a democracy once you lose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: It's really the typical Democratic voter. They never cared about the Supreme Court. The Republicans held a Supreme Court seat hostage for nearly a year and Democrats still couldn't be bothered to vote. Now that we are facing the consequences of that decision, Democrats expect Biden to pull a rabbit out of his hat to counteract a Supreme Court decision. I don't think these progressives realizes that you don't just get to rebuild a democracy once you lose it. Do children that were helicopter parented grow up expecting to be helicopter governed? Edited June 30, 2022 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Elizabeth Warren had the brilliant idea of opening abortion clinics in federal parks. There is one federal park in Michigan. It's an uninhabited island in the middle of Lake Superior. It's only accessible by boat or floatplane and closed during the winter. It's a 600 miles from Detroit to where you would even board the plane or boat for the island. wHy IsN't BiDeN mAkInG tHiS hApPeN?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Do children that were helicopter parented grow up expecting to be helicopter governed? This is probably the best explanation I have seen. There is a lot of entitlement within the progressive ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 There is more than one federal park in Michigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 18 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Elizabeth Warren had the brilliant idea of opening abortion clinics in federal parks. There is one federal park in Michigan. It's an uninhabited island in the middle of Lake Superior. It's only accessible by boat or floatplane and closed during the winter. It's a 600 miles from Detroit to where you would even board the plane or boat for the island. wHy IsN't BiDeN mAkInG tHiS hApPeN?! LOL- you left out that you can walk there, from MN, in the winter, if there is enough ice, (which becomes less likely with each ton of coal burned). Just you and the moose and maybe the occasional timber wolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Also the Democrats sure seem entitled to my vote since I have the audacity to be on the left. If I don't vote for them everything is my fault I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: LOL- you left out that you can walk there, from MN, in the winter, if there is enough ice, (which becomes less likely with each ton of coal burned). Just you and the moose and maybe the occasional timber wolf. malarkey that's not the only federal land in Michigan and I'm willing to bet you know it b/c you're smart about stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, pfife said: malarkey that's not the only federal land in Michigan and I'm willing to bet you know it b/c you're smart about stuff State law has full authority in the national forest land. Isle Royale is the only “National Park” in MI. I think Old Fort Wayne in Det was a Federal compound at one time-WWII era- but I don’t think it is any more. Edited June 30, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Democrats aren't entitled to your vote. I just know you will be complaining the next 4 years and beyond when Republicans take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Elizabeth Warren said National Parks, not federal land. Uninhabited forest 200 miles from the largest urban center isn't much better especially when they can just cross the border into Canada. I'm guessing a lot of states don't have national parks within distance of urban centers. It's likely why they are national parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Democrats aren't entitled to your vote. I just know you will be complaining the next 4 years and beyond when Republicans take over. I will definitely be complaining about Republicans for the next 4 years and beyond regardless of whether they take over, which is exactly the same I've been doing for the past 20+ years regardless of who is in office. Meanwhile I just know you'll be complaining about the woke left (just like Republicans) when the Republicans take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Biden just made a meaningless gesture. Progressives should be happy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Elizabeth Warren said National Parks, not federal land. Uninhabited forest 200 miles from the largest urban center isn't much better especially when they can just cross the border into Canada. I'm guessing a lot of states don't have national parks within distance of urban centers. It's likely why they are national parks. Warren, speaking on ABC's This Week, said Biden should 'make abortion as available as possible with the tools he has, including medication abortion, including using federal lands as a place where abortions can occur.' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10959487/Elizabeth-Warren-AOC-call-Biden-set-emergency-abortion-clinics-federal-lands.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: State law has full authority in the national forest land. Isle Royale is the only “National Park” in MI. I think Old Fort Wayne in Det was a Federal compound at one time-WWII era- but I don’t it is any more. I'm interested in reading about this, do you have a source? I googled and saw that the Feds have to give the authority to the States, and that was in the case of "management" of the land which I think is not synonymous with "full authority" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, pfife said: Warren, speaking on ABC's This Week, said Biden should 'make abortion as available as possible with the tools he has, including medication abortion, including using federal lands as a place where abortions can occur.' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10959487/Elizabeth-Warren-AOC-call-Biden-set-emergency-abortion-clinics-federal-lands.html She may have said that but she is wrong if she thinks state law is not enforced in national forest land. Go up north, there are no sworn federal officers in the Hiawatha forest, there are on Isle Royale. ( in the summer! ) Edited June 30, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 What a relief. Poor black Detroiters will only have to go 200 miles into Trump territory to Manistee National Forest for an abortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: What a relief. Poor black Detroiters will only have to go 200 miles into Trump territory to Manistee National Forest for an abortion. way better than not being able to get one in Michigan at all but then again I'm pro-choice so I have a different stance than you apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, pfife said: way better than not being able to get one in Michigan at all but then again I'm pro-choice so I have a different stance than you apparently. They can cross the river into Canada. It would be easier, quicker and safer but hey an assanine idea is doing something. Progressive love their symbolic gestures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: She may have that but she wrong if she thinks state law is not enforced on in national forest land. Go up north, there are no sworn federal officers in the Hiawatha forest, there are on Isle Royale. I'll be in the UP in a few days. I'll try to remember to check who's managing at the lodges for the places up around Pictured Rocks. I do recall from prior trips to Sleeping Bear and Munising that they wore similar looking uniforms to the guys working the Washington Monument but that doesn't mean much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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