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2024 Presidential Election thread


pfife

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

... Democratic voters did their job...

They didn't do their job well enough. Because they could have done better.

I believe that's MB's point.

Biden got 81MM votes in 2020 out of 159MM total votes.

Clinton got 66MM votes in 2016 out of 136MM total votes.

The voting population didn't swell 23MM votes between 2016 and 2020, they were just a lot more motivated (for some reason...!).

Why weren't the Dems motivated in 2016 and Clinton got those same approximately 80MM in votes? Did they not realize what would happen if TRUMP got elected? This is my point, and I believe MB's point. This country is in the current state that it's in because too many people are blind to consequences. Or don't care. Or for some other BS reason. Including whining like a little baby that "you're not entitled to my vote!" 

Fine. Absolutely correct. No one is entitled to anything.

So this is the country we GET because of political stupidity in this country. 

Hope everyone is happy with the current state of affairs.

I know there's a lot of theocratic fascist Republicans who absolutely are happy with this.

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2 minutes ago, pfife said:

So you agree 74m is too many?

Not if they're outvoted by 81MM.

But to answer your question... yes.

Too many ready to buy into a fascist state because someone represents "my politics". If someone is a threat to our Democracy, then WTF are these 74MM Republicans thinking (specifically "moderate"/ "centrist or right-leaning Independents"/ "establishment Republicans"/ "Bush/ Reagan Republicans", or other such types. I mean, when is enough, enough?

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

In Michigan, for example, Trump only won by 10,000 votes. Detroit had a voter turnout under 50%. Clinton won Detroit with 98% of the vote. Hundreds of thousands of votes were left on the table. Running up the score in California doesn't do any good. Unfortunately that is the system we have. 

No, it's not fair to try and play the game the way it was designed.  The much better political play is not to do anything about it, except complain. 

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It's not like we're asking for any herculean effort from Detroit. Just asking Detroit to turn out at the same rate as the rest of the state. If they did that, it would be hard for a Republican to win statewide elections. A democracy requires all of it's citizens to participate. Half of Detroiters don't participate and these are the consequences. 

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3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Not if they're outvoted by 81MM.

But to answer your question... yes.

Too many ready to buy into a fascist state because someone represents "my politics". If someone is a threat to our Democracy, then WTF are these 74MM Republicans thinking (specifically "moderate"/ "centrist or right-leaning Independents"/ "establishment Republicans"/ "Bush/ Reagan Republicans", or other such types. I mean, when is enough, enough?

so is it the people who voted Republicans or the people in Detroit who didn't vote?   You've blamed both.   In addition to previously last week blaming progressives who voted but not for Democrats.  

You also said both Yes and No to my question of whether 74m is too many.   

Any chance that someone who may have voted for the guys that appointed Thomas, Alito, and Roberts could be to blame?  Maybe?

Edited by pfife
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But if republicans weren't voting for republicans and republicans weren't doing republican things once in office the non-vote in Detroit would be of little impact in terms of the current state of the country. 

Edited by pfife
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23 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

No, it's not fair to try and play the game the way it was designed.  The much better political play is not to do anything about it, except complain. 

Or we could do what you did and push for republican candidates for decades and then blame everyone else when their appointees take away rights and run this MF'er into the ground. 

Edited by pfife
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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Detroit non voters are like the Uvalde police. A madman with a gun is slaughtering innocent children while they just stand around outside. 

So to continue the metaphor, you're the one not paying attention to the gun problem? 

Edited by pfife
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2 minutes ago, pfife said:

Any chance that someone who may have voted for the guys that appointed Thomas, Alito, and Roberts could be to blame?  Maybe?

Republicans are going to vote Republican. I know they are trying to overthrow the Supreme Court. I know they are trying to overthrow Constitutional rights. I know they want to install a fascist dictatorship. So yes, absolutely they are to blame for INSTALLING these Supremes, and the current state of lost Constitutional rights. And if they vote for Trump again, they are straight up Neo-Nazi Fascists.

BUT: The only way to stop them is to vote Democrat. A Republican may be to blame for ELECTING to put those people on the SC... but the only way to STOP that is to OUTVOTE them and get a Democrat in place instead.

 

2 minutes ago, pfife said:

so is it the people who voted Republicans or the people in Detroit who didn't vote? ...

For NOT voting enough for a Democrat?

In order to defeat the Republicans who are going to put Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Coney-Barrett and Roberts in place?

Why would I blame Republicans? They're going to vote Republican.

The only way to stop them is to vote Democrat.

So if the Dems, in 2016, 2022, 2000, or in any other year decide to sit at home and put up 64MM votes instead of the 81MM votes plus that they COULD have put up... Then they DO deserve a portion of that blame. They are NOT blameless.

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4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Republicans are going to vote Republican. I know they are trying to overthrow the Supreme Court. I know they are trying to overthrow Constitutional rights. I know they want to install a fascist dictatorship. So yes, absolutely they are to blame for INSTALLING these Supremes, and the current state of lost Constitutional rights. And if they vote for Trump again, they are straight up Neo-Nazi Fascists.

So republicans are going to vote republicans... so be it...  but leftists shall vote Democrats or it's all their fault.... 

It would be awesome if you gave me as much autonomy over my vote as you give Republicans for theirs.   I guess it's easier for you to relate to republican voters given your admitted history of voting Republican.... speaking of who's to blame.

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18 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Detroit non voters are like the Uvalde police. A madman with a gun is slaughtering innocent children while they just stand around outside. 

“Blacks and African Americans makeup only 13% of the state's population as a whole but account for 82% of Detroit's population.”

I copy and pasted the above line from a summary piece on the 2020 census. So, what reason would you cite for the low voter turnout in Detroit? Apathy? Any ideas?
 

 

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It's kinda fun watching a bunch of people who've admitted and demonstrated they were Republicans or Republican voters in the past.... lecturing me on how to vote in order to avoid republican takeover.   Maybe next I can watch the Detroit Lions give a seminar on winning Super Bowls.

Anyways welcome to the shindig guys.  I've been partying with these dudes since the late 90s when you guys were pushing for a W presidency.    Just quit showing up and rearranging the furniture and shitting on everyone already here.    

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7 minutes ago, 1776 said:

“Blacks and African Americans makeup only 13% of the state's population as a whole but account for 82% of Detroit's population.”

I copy and pasted the above line from a summary piece on the 2020 census. So, what reason would you cite for the low voter turnout in Detroit? Apathy? Any ideas?
 

 

I have voted in Detroit twice in 2005 and 2008. My mother even volunteered in the Hanson Clarke campaign. Apathy was a big thing. My mother went door to door and many didn't seem to care. I have no idea if anything changed in nearly 20 years. 

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25 minutes ago, pfife said:

Or we could do what you did and push for republican candidates for decades and then blame everyone else when their appointees take away rights and run this MF'er into the ground. 

Oh trust me, i'm not blaming everyone else.  I certainly admit that I was not an 'abortion' voter as even though I disagreed with the republican platform and even leaned towards the 'bad law' complaint for RvW.  I simply never thought it would be overturned.  Similar to the social platform of the GOP.  I didn't like it, but I felt society as a whole was moving in the right direction and would overrun the religious component of the GOP. 

Now, I can't vote based on what I think are the best policies for the issues that I feel are most important to how we run our government.  I'll still give local republicans a chance if I see they are doing good work (probably just Miller), but i'm straight ticket dem at this point on bigger races.  I just wished the dem party focused on real solutions instead of complaining about how bad the other party is.  I mean, RvW wouldn't be this big of an issue if they would have just codified it, which even Manchin showed support for.

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That 2005 election was something. Kwame was basically Trump. Everyone at that point knew he was corrupt. My mom worked for the city and they would refer it to the Kwame friends and family plan. He was giving anybody who was loyal to him high paying jobs in the city. I guess Bobby Ferguson would be Giuliani. Many people felt he had Tamara Greene whacked. It didn't matter, he was ya'lls boi and Freeman Hendrix was the establishment. The city ended up bankrupt and Kwame ended up in jail. 

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