mtutiger Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 An odious man who helped maintain Putin's grip on power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, oblong said: I sincerely hope and pray you are right and I am wrong because it means lives will be saved and people will be punished. Historians may well identify this as the prelude to the war for Taiwan that will involve US forces. We had best get this right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 1 minute ago, mtutiger said: An odious man who helped maintain Putin's grip on power. Glad he's dead and meeting his judgement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 (edited) I keep saying this, but there's gonna be a price associated with theoretically "letting it go" or "getting back to normal" particularly with the Eastern Europe/old Warsaw Pact states. And seemingly, though cold comfort for Zelensky and the Ukrainians who would like to see more, every day we see new signs of Europe/US going further than anyone ever expected on this problem. That could be seen, for instance, in Germany's President coming out and issuing a public apology for engaging in Nord Stream 2 with the Russians, for instance.... that was unthinkable 45 days ago. I don't see a way that the genie goes back into the bottle on this stuff... it's just a different world now. Edited April 6, 2022 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, mtutiger said: I keep saying this, but there's gonna be a price associated with theoretically "letting it go" or "getting back to normal" particularly with the Eastern Europe/old Warsaw Pact states. And seemingly, though cold comfort for Zelensky and the Ukrainians who would like to see more, every day we see new signs of Europe/US going further than anyone ever expected on this problem. That could be seen, for instance, in Germany's President coming out and issuing a public apology for engaging in Nord Stream 2 with the Russians, for instance.... that was unthinkable 45 days ago. I don't see a way that the genie goes back into the bottle on this stuff... it's just a different world now. concur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 no wonder the Russians killed a bunch of civilians in Bucha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 2 hours ago, romad1 said: Historians may well identify this as the prelude to the war for Taiwan that will involve US forces. We had best get this right. Yikes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: I keep saying this, but there's gonna be a price associated with theoretically "letting it go" or "getting back to normal" particularly with the Eastern Europe/old Warsaw Pact states. And seemingly, though cold comfort for Zelensky and the Ukrainians who would like to see more, every day we see new signs of Europe/US going further than anyone ever expected on this problem. That could be seen, for instance, in Germany's President coming out and issuing a public apology for engaging in Nord Stream 2 with the Russians, for instance.... that was unthinkable 45 days ago. I don't see a way that the genie goes back into the bottle on this stuff... it's just a different world now. You never know. Just when you think 'everything has changed' you find out that maybe it hasn't. The truth that so much has changed in unexpected ways in 45 days only really means things can change again in unexpected ways in 45 days. All that said, I tend to agree that Putin has forced the West into a fundamental paradigm shift - I just wouldn't but all my chips on it quite yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: You never know. Just when you think 'everything has changed' you find out that maybe it hasn't. The truth that so much has changed in unexpected ways in 45 days only really means things can change again in unexpected ways in 45 days. All that said, I tend to agree that Putin has forced the West into a fundamental paradigm shift - I just wouldn't but all my chips on it quite yet. You're right, there's always a possibility. I just think that particular 'possibility' is treated more like a 'probability' by way too many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 7 hours ago, romad1 said: Historians may well identify this as the prelude to the war for Taiwan that will involve US forces. We had best get this right. I haven't seen anything you have stated where I felt you were wrong in regards to Ukraine, but I have thought to myself you were a bit war hawkish and I needed to temper my own thoughts. I felt like I was looking at this in a more realistic view, where others were excited about the stalled ground movement, I focused on the destruction Russia was putting on the citizens. To me, a ceasefire as quick as possible, anyway possible, was the best outcome. Seeing the pictures of these towns west and north of Kyiv and you'd think it would solidify my thoughts. I think it's doing just the opposite. I think I've turned, give them the Migs, give them offensive weapons, give them everything they need to take their country back and don't stop until the Russians are out of the country and Ukraine is part of NATO. As you say, not only is that the only outcome that really stops further Russian aggression, but it's about the largest show of force we could provide to deter China with Taiwan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 1 hour ago, ewsieg said: I haven't seen anything you have stated where I felt you were wrong in regards to Ukraine, but I have thought to myself you were a bit war hawkish and I needed to temper my own thoughts. I felt like I was looking at this in a more realistic view, where others were excited about the stalled ground movement, I focused on the destruction Russia was putting on the citizens. To me, a ceasefire as quick as possible, anyway possible, was the best outcome. Seeing the pictures of these towns west and north of Kyiv and you'd think it would solidify my thoughts. I think it's doing just the opposite. I think I've turned, give them the Migs, give them offensive weapons, give them everything they need to take their country back and don't stop until the Russians are out of the country and Ukraine is part of NATO. As you say, not only is that the only outcome that really stops further Russian aggression, but it's about the largest show of force we could provide to deter China with Taiwan. yes - the outcome that best secures the future for everyone is for Russia to lose badly (=forced to withdraw at least to pre 2022 borders) and Ukrainian resolve means that Russia losing badly appears to be within reach, or at least it is within the West's reach to demonstrate to Russian that a bad loss can/will eventually be inflicted on them if they do not desist/withdraw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 The shitbird caucus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 I salute this move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 oh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Seth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Pretty dark rabbit hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 1 hour ago, romad1 said: Seth! Here comes the 134 tweet Seth thread about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 I forgot he even existed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 appears that Russia is going to slow things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 On 4/6/2022 at 9:01 AM, romad1 said: Yes, lets flush these pieces of shiz As it happens I am in NYC this week on vacation with the fam. I am close enough to walk down to Turtle Bay. I might just stand outside and clap for this one. We've already walked by the Ukraine permanent mission a couple times and seen the notices on the door about volunteering for the Ukrainian Territorial Army. The NYC Police guarding the door have a roadblock that says "NYC Police Stands with Ukraine. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 7, 2022 Author Share Posted April 7, 2022 12 hours ago, romad1 said: The shitbird caucus It never fails to knock me out when I contemplate the idea that a central tenet of Christian Nationalism is that Jesus Christ himself is on the side of Putin’s Russians and against Biden’s America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 Those folks probably have never read Proverbs 26, especially verse 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted April 7, 2022 Share Posted April 7, 2022 (edited) in total agreements. Edited April 7, 2022 by romad1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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