casimir

I never knew he was so demonstrative on the mound. Maybe he wasn't before this struggling season, I don't know.

I would suggest he was more of a LF. He played 1,679 innings as a LF, 1,585 as a 2B, 1,236 as a 3B, 654 as a RF, and then a few hundred amongst CF/SS. I understand what you are saying about Whitaker "blocking" him. I guess I just prefer to look at where he actually played.

Then we might as well embrace the apocolypse.

Ibanez had quite the stretch early on today, too. While we're at it, Ibanez is coming back next season.

Ah, OK. I thought you were referring to Phillips. Without looking at it, I'd have said Kell & Fryman in whatever order of 1 & 2 and then the next best can start at 5. That's my impression of what Tiger 3B history is.

Just need to get through 5 with a lead and then the weather can do its thing.

Yeah, agree there. I guess I had just never thought of Phillips as one of their best 3B. I had always thought of him more as an everyday hitter that was plugged into an available defensive position.

I know he has mentioned that rest preference in passing, but without looking at it, it seems like there would have always been 5 or 6 bigger OF names than him in whichever league that he played.

Wow, that's kind of interesting.

My wife does, but that's a different story.

Fireworks!

He caught the air conditioner outflow at the right time.

This would be helpful. Sunk cost, eat it, whatever. In my opinion, opening up the roster spot is more valuable than worrying about the contract. Or, how about this? I don't know if there is a pitcher that exists on a similar type of contract that has a similar type of disappointing production. Swap a disappointment for a disappointment, see if Fetter can do something there? I doubt that type of arrangement is possible, but its a fun theory to consider.

I guess I don't understand saying a 25 year old AA player isn't ready for MLB yet and then in the same paragraph saying to give him a shot, but OK. I'd look to make moves on the left side of the IF. Ha Seong Kim has been playing SS exclusively this season, but has played 2B and 3B for San Diego in the past. He's suffering from poor BABIP luck this season, but he has mastery of the strike zone. Acquire him, plug him in on the left side of the IF, hit him at the top of the order. I don't quite know where the Bo Bichette talk is coming from. I understand he's having a poor season. I'd bank on him having a rebound season. I'm sure 29 other clubs would as well. If the Tigers can acquire him for something reasonable, sure, go for it. I don't know what the going rate would be, and I'd imagine he's going to feel free about testing his market when he's available for free agency.

Beat the Tloses!

I don't think Harris at $26M is worth celebrating. Heck, the short 2 season term is the best part of that contract. But this organization has been run into the ground that this is the kind of free agent they can acquire right now. He presents an option to open up space for Cunningham. He's a veteran than can absorb some of the scoring load. He's probably a moveable asset at some point that can get some kind of draft pick attached. I'd have rather had Caldwell-Pope, too. Actually, if they had figured out a way to get both, that'd have been a pretty decent offseason for the Pistons. Cunningham, Caldwell-Pope, Thompson, Harris, Duren with Sasser, Ivey, Holland, Stewart off of the bench. Still sucks this upcoming season, but maybe its a more tolerable watch and headed in the right direction? Now its probably Ivey starting and Hardaway Jr off of the bench.

I look at Manning and Torkelson still in Toledo and can't help but wonder what kind of chance do they have as 2025 Tigers.

Trei Cruz? Come on...... C - Rogers, Dingler. Opportunity here to add a C with options as the 3rd C. The Tigers have had quite durable C the past few seasons. OF - Greene and Carpenter, obviously. Vierling and Perez have probably earned spots, although neither should be guaranteed starting roles. Meadows can hopefully hit enough. Maybe factors in Malloy here, but I think he still has to earn it and likely on as a DH. SS - Baez. I don't like it. You don't like it. Nobody likes it. I don't think they're eating the contract yet. He won't finish the contract as a major leaguer, but they're going to play it out yet. 2B - Keith. Like Baez, the contract plays the position. I suppose its possible that Keith is optioned to Toledo. That's as far as I can see the position players. Sure, Torkelson might get another shot at 1B. Jung might get a call up at 3B (I do like how he has cut down on SOs over the seasons, but its tough to assume OPS over .800 in AAA translates to anything substantive in MLB). Ibanez seems a favorite as a vs LHP platoon to go with Keith. So at the end of the day, they probably have their catchers, probably an every day middle IF that hasn't shown much of anything at the plate this season, and reasonable enough options for an every day OF with bench spots which at least has been a positive WAR this season. Urshela, Canha, probably McKinstry out. Jung, Torkelson, .... Vilade in? Is that really enough to be viable offensively to go with the above?

Just to throw a little cold water on Madden's most recent start, Louisville's .711 OPS is good for absolute last in the International League (.773). That's a cheaply calculated 92 OPS+. Yes, I know, I'm a ray of sunshine at parties, too.

Well, this is all considering Flaherty in a vacuum. Who else will be available and at what prices? I wouldn't be opposed to extending him and rerolling the dice on acquiring offense this offseason. Skubal, Flaherty, and Olson at the top of the rotation. Can they add another legit SP (along the lines of what they've done with Lorenzen and Flaherty) and see what Mize can do next season?

How do you know that to be true? Have we not seen players take less money for better situations, be it fit/role with team and/or team expectations?

OK, but here is part of the issue at hand. This organization has been going through sink or swim evaluation for too many seasons in a row. I understand the front office has been turned over. What happened prior shouldn't necessarily be on the current's resume. But the current organization needs to understand that this fan base has been through enough of a stretch of uncompetitive baseball. @chasfh astutely went through a laundry list of things that didn't work this season (must be in another thread), a list where if those reasonable possibilities were more 50/50 rather than 20/80, then we're probably in a better mood today. Too many things went wrong as opposed to neutral or right. OK, fine, that's baseball, it happens. But you can't build upon that disappointment with another season of disappointment, a scheduled season of wait and see without addressing known and reasonably anticipated weaknesses during this upcoming offseason. I doubt they could do enough shopping this offseason to acquire too much talent. Should that happen, I think they can move out some current for future. I understand Harris' desire to build this organization with deeper roots to acquire and develop better than in the past. I appreciate that, I implore that, we should all be happy with that. At the same time, the current needs to be addressed. I sometimes question whether or not the current front office understands what the fan base has lived through. Sure, they can look at losing record after losing record after losing record. But does that really resonate with folks that have not been living the entirety of it? I don't want to hear about personal competitive natures on a friendly podcast. Show me that nature by building sooner and later.

Who's to say Caldwell-Pope even sniffed a Piston offer (if offered)?

The walker siting next to the pizza spear in the dugout is a bit of a red flag, isn't it?

Who is crying? There's no hitting on the major league roster and this front office has not shown an ability to draft/develop/coach major league hitting. To be fair, they've only been around for a season and a half. But we've also seen puzzling approaches at the plate, particularly this season. So, I'll believe they can draft/develop/coach hitting when I see it.