Stanley70

I think how god awful of team they inherited matters, and no cap room to fix it. There are 5 guys I believe that played yesterday on defense left from the QuinTricia regime. And only Okudah is a decent player. AO is literally the worst corner and he is starting over Will Harris. Bryant and J Okwara are bottom of the roster guys. They have only had 2 off seasons to turn over the entire defense basically. They have made some mistakes, Brockers being the big one. You can also question their lack of efforts into doing anything to improve the secondary. They have made 4 day one or day to picks on the d-line and only Melanfonwu in the secondary and none at LB. . Having said that I am not sold on Glenn. The defense did get some pieces this year and they don't seem to be doing much better. His job is probably on the line if they don't do better on defense. The offense i believe will be above average, even with Goff, if they can ever get healthy. Which may not happen with a few guys. I think Campbell and Holmes deserve another offseason. They have made some mistakes but have had a ton of bad luck as well with injuries. It looks like they will have some cap room when they restructure Goff and cut a few guys like Brockers and Romeo. Plus they have a ton of draft capital.

I think a lot of the success with a draft can be attributed to the development team, especially the later picks. It would explain why the Dodgers can find four nice prospects in one draft and the Tigers are lucky to have one high pick pan out.

If i understand that correctly he only has 10M in guaranteed money after this year. But 20M plus in base salary for 2 years which is not guaranteed. So the odds of him having a 30M cap hit next year are low. Somehow they will restructure. Either to keep him around as a backup/stopgap or to trade him.

Perhaps I am a little more desensitized to the Lions losing, having been a fan for about 45 years. But I see some pieces developing and that is something at least. Still some gaping holes that when filled with guys that aren't waiver wire fodder should be a big improvement. Next year i will expect winning. Holmes will have had 3 drafts, all of the bad Quinn contracts will be off the books, and they should have some money to add a decent FA or two.

Their record is worse. Dallas, Philly, and Minnesota are a combined 17- 3. Even Seattle has a winning record. My view of this team hasn't changed much just because what was expected to be another rebuilding season is off to a slow start, due mainly to injuries.

Are we really worse than preseason expectations given the injuries and tougher than anticipated schedule? They had 5 starters out against Dallas on offense, including the top 4 offensive weapons. Goff isn't the kind of QB that can succeed without weapons. It's who we thought he was and why we need to replace him. And the O-Line hasn't had the projected starting 5 on the field at the same time all year. You can blame Holmes for drafting an injured WR and then signing another in free agency though. On defense they were without Levi, Romeo, Harris, Walker, Comminsky, and just got back Jacobs and Paschel. The defense actually played their base game it looked like in spite of that. The combined records of the teams that they have lost to is 23-10, not the last place looking schedule it looked like. They need to get healthy and add depth, period. There were some very good signs on defense from Aiden, Okudah, Joseph, and Paschel on Sunday to build on. And when ARB, Swift and Jamo are on the field at the same time the offense will put up points i am sure, even with Goff.

With all of the pitching injuries there is a huge range of possibilities performance wise with the starting rotation. If Turnbull, Skubal, and Manning pitch well at some point and ERod is still a mid rotation guy they could in a good place by the end of the year. Plus they have Jobe and Flores in the minors and Mize coming back in 2024. Or not. So spending on multi year deals doesn't make sense until they get some clarity. And then as Edman mentioned they have to go through Candelario, and every position player player on the roster, with the new hitting and analytics staffs and determine if there are any keepers, and at what cost. Get creative with value trades and low cost signings and go from there. I don't think they will trade Skubal for example if he pitches well, but other relievers and possibly Turnbull. That is what I expect.

I don't get the Chris I. hate. A good owner sets a decent budget and stays out of the way. And makes changes in the front office when the team is failing. He has basically done that although he let AA hang around way too long. I understand not spending during periods losing, but he spent last year on Baez and ERod. Tampa Bay and Oakland would not have signed players like that in IMO. I expect Harris to to spend in areas the Tigers have neglected, like scouting and development. We will see how that goes. When they have a team that looks like they can win in the playoffs, should that day ever come, will he spend really big? He did in 2016 and he probably will again.

It's how you look at it. Take his day 3 picks. He started with a 4th, a 5th and a 7th. He hit on the 4th and missed on the other 2 and threw in a 2022 4th as well. Now would I trade 2 4th's, a 5th and 7th and St Brown? Of course. There is a missed opportunity though. And he started day 2 with a 2nd, and 2 3rds. He went 1 for 3 (so far, I agree there is time for Melanfonwu and Levi). And the draft overall was a good one, I am just saying he missed some picks that could have helped the defense.

Each pick is independent of the other. They missed on Levi, Melanfonwu, and Barnes. A 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounder, not sure what is wrong with saying that. I believe they traded up to get Barnes as well so he actually cost a 5th in 21 and a 4th in 22. Or something like that. All in all it was a good draft, a couple of stars but light on depth. They had extra picks that didn't work out.

The focus is missing on 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders from the same draft. Yes he hit on St. Brown which was a great pick. No GM goes 3 for three on those picks, but missing an all three stings. None of those three are decent backups at this point.

Barnes was a 4th and Melanfonwu was a 3rd. Just because they had extra picks doesn't ease the sting of missing on those picks. Yes Brockers was traded for a 7th, but he has a 7M cap hit this year which could have been spent better elsewhere obviously. Plus it will cost 4M to cut him next year.

Holmes has built a nice offense, when not missing 4-5 key pieces. They are thin at TE and only have one decent backup lineman in Evan Brown though. Defense is where they don't seem to be making much progress. His first draft has only yielded one decent player in McNeil. Levi was drafted about where he was projected, some had him as a late first rounder. That miss is probably just bad luck. Barnes is a long term project at best, and Melanfonwu looks like another injury bust. Missing on 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders from the same draft is not good. Add in that they traded for Brockers who hasn't helped at all. This draft is a little better, but they need Paschel to contribute. Some of the slow progress is Holmes and some is bad luck. They inherited only a couple of decent players from the previous regime and ironically all three have suffered Achilles injuries. Next year they will address the defense and if they are still bad then Campbell's and Holmes seats become hot.

Mike Pelfrey.

The Lions were down 4 starters on offense in Chark, Williams, Swift, and Vaitai. Plus ARB was severely limited and they were down to there third string RG. Those are their best weapons on offense. That said they still gained over 300 yards, but shot themselves in the foot too often. On defense they are still without Levi, Paschel, Harris, Walker, Okwara, and Jacobs. Plus they had DB's dropping all game. They had about 5-6 guys that were either waiver claims or didn't make the team out of camp on the field for much of the game. I still think if they get reasonably healthy they are close to a playoff team. They are way to thin right now to absorb so many injuries and compete. Some of that is just dumb luck and some are mistakes by Holmes like Brockers and spending too many draft resources on players with injury histories. So the got pantsed by Belichick, not the first team that has happened to. They were outgained like 360 to 302, so it wasn't that bad. They need to get healthy before we can bury them this year.

They hit 104 less homeruns than predicted. I blame the new ball 50% and Coolbaugh 50%.

If Harris is looking for the Tigers to "control the strike zone", i wonder how that will affect the decisions on some of these young guys that will be in the mix for 25 man spots next year. Since Baez and Schoop are under contract next year they will be back. But when it comes down to guys like Reyes, Carpenter, Badoo, HCastro, Haase and a few others, they are all pretty bad. At least according to BB/SO ratio's. I am sure that if they are able to get a more promising corner outfield bat they will do so. And that shouldn't be too hard.

Rather than "finding a right handed hitting outfielder" this off season will be devoted to finding undervalued talent. If they wind up with 3 decent corner left handed hitting corner outfielders outfielders, fine, they will trade one. When they have a team that looks like they can win in the playoffs that mindset might change a bit, but for now they need talent obviously. That will start with having a front office that knows how to find those players. So Chadd and Plies should be placed on a catapult and ejected from Comerica.

McCovey retired in the 70's i think. If he started in 1959 that means his career was 42 years :)

If they have have an offer of 3 firsts for Young or Stroud I believe I would pass. Rookie QB's are no sure thing, and then they would probably have to carry Goff and his albatross of a contract for another year as well making it harder to improve the defense with less money to spend. For Jackson I would do it, but as suggested it will take more than that. Probably a lot more along with a huge cap hit, also making it difficult to improve the defense with few high picks and not a lot of money to spend. It will be interesting watching this play out, I'm sure how Goff does this year will impact Holmes' sense of urgency.

IMO signing Wilmer Flores would be a Al Avila move, not a Harris move. Flores is a 31 year old 1B/3B with a 731 OPS. He below average glove at third and is slow. If you have a winning team and need to plug a hole on the cheap, OK. But the guy is unlikely to breakout and become a first division regular, which is what the Tigers desperately need.

They have to figure out what they have in Mize, Turnball, Manning, Skubal, and Breiske. Not sure why they bring in a SP by free agency or trade when they have those guys plus Erod and a few decent prospects getting closer to being ready. When it comes to every day players they may or may not have needs a damn near every position. Whatever offensive virus infected the team last year must be eradicated and they need to determine what they have in guys like Badoo, Tork, etc. There are a few prospects that are not the can't miss type that they should see what they have in as well. It sucks but money can't fix this team overnight. And given the uncertainty of so many players it is debatable of where to even spend it.

The Tigers are going to finish the year losing 100 games, that doesn't sound like a jumping off point to bring in a bunch of free agents. I believe they will not spend much money this year, at least on multi year deals, and evaluate the numerous starting pitchers they have in various stages of recovery. They are where they are and the prudent play is to treat 2023 like another year of rebuilding, which again what a team coming off 100 losses should do. If they get some luck on the health of their young starters and a couple of the decent prospects they have pan out they will have something to build around.

I believe the Cubs were rumored to have interest in Fulmer at the time Quintana was traded. Not sure if they would preferred Fulmer over Quintana, or AA decided not trade him. I do remember lots of discussion on this board about whether or not Fulmer should be traded with most arguing for hanging on to him.

Levi is moving closer and closer to bust territory. Which sucks because Barmore , a DT, went a couple of picks before him and looks great. Plus the guys they passed on like JOK and Moehrig. https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2022/09/12/levi-onwuzurike-back-injury-update-ir-dan-campbell-lions-update/