1984Echoes

These are some of your BEST: On 10/31/2025 at 8:46 AM, chasfh said: And this doesn’t even take into account the effect such a trade …would have on the rest of the guys who are already here, as well as the guys who are due to come up. Who’s going to gladly bust their ass for a team that purposely trades their way out of playoff contention? (My right now comments): so ALL of our players are just going to give up according to you if we trade Skubal, including all of our minor leaguers coming up. Because who on this team is going to actually try... if we trade Skubal? Pretty fatalistic if you ask me. On 11/4/2025 at 11:51 AM, chasfh said: … position his team to get back to that same place no sooner than three years from now, which is 2028, at best, and probably more like 2029 or even 2030. (My right now comments): 2029? 2030? Seriously? Continuing with your same post: ... But what is arguably even worse is that Harris would lose the players in the organization … Riley Greene or Spencer Torkelson, Dillon Dingler, or a Jackson Jobe, or Kevin McGonigle or Max Clark or a dozen other ranked young talents … but also, the free agents outside of this organization. What halfway decent free agent in his right mind is going to sign with a team operating with the expressed intent of going backward the year they come aboard? Who on god's green earth would want to sign up for that? And not only free agents this year, but free agents every single year Scott Harris is running this team. No top-tier free agent would ever want to devote … at any given moment, they are willing to blow it all up and go backwards because it might pay out four or five years now. Trading Tarik Skubal this winter is practically guaranteed to limit our prospective free agent pool to guys who are willing to sign one-year prove-it deals, and nothing more, for the rest of Harris's tenure with us. So you are LITERALLY (YOUR words, YOUR posts) saying that if we trade Skubal: No quality free agent (except 1 year guys) will EVER sign with the Tigers as long as Harris is GM. All of our players will quit playing hard. And that includes all our minor leaguers breaking into MLB soon. And most likely we will not be able to contend again until 2029 or 2030. Is that literal enough for you? Is that NOT the entire Org? Or do I need the actual words that I used to appear in one of your posts in order to satisfy your demand? Fatalism BEYOND BELIEF. IMO.

You are literally posting that if we DO trade Skubal this winter that the entire Org WILL fall apart and we won't contend again until "most likely 2030." All in your own words.

Harris just flat out refuted (indirectly, not directly) with what he is saying. No big moves. No blocking of prospects. Just some holes to fill. Whatever he ends up doing, Harris will not meet Rosenthal's expectations or exhortations. I would prefer a couple big moves. But c'est la vie.

They commented specifically on that. He added a pretty effective change-up (I mean, for Korea) that they liked... And I think improved his command and is missing more bats with the combo... We'll see how he does coming back to the U.S. soon enough.

No wonder Larkin Raymond Finnie and Seider & Edvinsson are just chilling out tonight! "Let the other guys bask in the limelight a little!" "Let's just chill and let them have their fun instead!" "We can coast for once!"

I agree. But Scott Boras is standing in our way.

3-0 at the end of 2. JVR, Danielson and Copp scored... NOT the usual suspects (I mean, JVR lately, yeah... but those 3 as a combo scoring those goals... hmmm). And Chiarot and ASP are +3... WTF?!?!?! (said with a smile on my face of course...)

The flipside to that is... very shortly... we WON'T be paying: Baez $24 mill per year. Torres $22 mill per year. Flaherty $20 mill per year. Doesn't that free up payroll to pay for OTHER talent? You could add in McKinstry's $4 mill because at some point, he will be replaced by Hao Yu Lee or Trei Cruz or... And when Max Anderson and McGonigle and Clark come up... Don't we want at least ONE or TWO well-regarded veterans mixed in with those guys? Again... I'm not worried about payroll the next several years, at all. And I don't think Harris, or Chris Ilitch, is either. Just my 2 cents.

OK I can concede that. But even if it's bullpen, I don't think it would be pure bullpen. I think it would veer more towards long man/6th starter when needed, or to cover a missed start or a few... So at least partially a starter... But just guessing here...

I have many. But this was so hilarious putting together... I just couldn't pass it up! PS: Ask me about my baseball card collection (I know, what a kid am I ... !)

I wouldn't worry about depleting resources. With a lot of kids coming up our payroll should be able to handle a few vets, even if they are costly. But Skubal isn't signing a free agent contract this offseason with us. So this isn't even relevant until offseason 2026. Any FA's that sign with Detroit aren't signing because Skubal is here ONLY in 2026, or HAS an extension or DOESN'T have an extension. There are only two reasons a FA will sign with Detroit this offseason, and neither have anything to do with Skubal: 1) Money 2) They WANT to be here.

So... Worth a shot in spring training. If nothing else he can be a 6th/7th/8th starter for Detroit (in Toledo) pending 2026 seasonal/ injury needs.

And here it is again. UNMITIGATED DISASTER!!! Holy FATALISM Batman!!!

PS: In Black and White: (I picked a starting point just to pick a starting point... (Starting with OUR offseason around Oct 22nd or so...) and there is NO way I can continue piling up the FATALISTIC versus OPTIMISTIC viewpoints in this thread...). It's endless. This isn't spin. It's pure fatalism versus optimism. And it's all over this thread in pure black and white ("We WON'T CONTEND UNTIL 2030 if we trade Skubal!!") Omigosh... there is just so much OVER the TOP fatalism I had to stop. Here is just a small sampling (my comments are in italics and brackets...): Fatalism: On 10/22/2025 at 8:49 AM, chasfh said: I think you’re right that trading Skubal … could have an impact on their psyche and thus performance afterward that … (Because trading Skubal means the rest of the team will just give up.) Optimism: On 10/22/2025 at 10:25 PM, Tiger337 said: In 2024, the Tigers gave their team the message that they were giving up on the season and then they couldn't stop winning! So, maybe they needed that message… Fatalism: On 10/23/2025 at 8:45 AM, chasfh said: Then maybe we should trade all our good players and pitchers for bags of balls and give up on 2026 so we can finally win our ring! … Fatalism: On 10/31/2025 at 8:46 AM, chasfh said: We should probably remember if the Tigers were to trade Skubal, they could kiss Bichette or Bregman or Tucker or Cease or just about any other halfway decent free agent goodbye. There’s no way any good player is going to want to come to a team … DOUBLE Fatalism!!!: On 10/31/2025 at 8:46 AM, chasfh said: And this doesn’t even take into account the effect such a trade …would have on the rest of the guys who are already here, as well as the guys who are due to come up. Who’s going to gladly bust their ass for a team that purposely trades their way out of playoff contention? (Because trading Skubal means the rest of the team will just GIVE UP!!! New kids coming up from the minors are NOT going to bust their ass to make MLB... they’re just going to give up! Hinch is just going to give up! EVERYBODY on the Tigers is just going to GIVE UP because we traded Skubal!!! OMIGOSH!!! The END of the WORLD!!!) Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 6:20 AM, oblong said: ... If you think you have a good system in place you should be able to replace him. You don't need back to back Cy Young pitchers to replace him but a couple of players who might finish top ten. Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 8:27 AM, chasfh said: If we trade Skubal, our trajectory will go backward... Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 1:25 PM, TcFlint said: Wrong! With Jobe, McGonigle, Anderson, Clark, Olson, Melton, Bicerno, Hamm, Green, Torkelson, Dingler, free agent signings, and whatever prospects we get for Skubal (if he is traded) we will NOT go backwards!!! One more year only for Skubal and a prospect in 2030 is malpractice IMO and is more than likely what we are going to get. Optimism: On 11/4/2025 at 10:51 AM, AlaskanTigersFan said: … I also think next year would be an adjustment anyways while waiting for McGonigle, Clark, Briceno and Liranzo to make their debuts and break in. Not to mention, hopefully Jobe should be back in August (fingers crossed). There's your true core to add to Greene, Dingler, Keith and Carpenter (hopefully Tork too but we'll see). … Tigers could make plenty of trades with Meadows, Max Anderson …, Lee, Wenceel Perez etc... to add to their pitching. There's a logjam there which could get us some decent pitchers. ... So yes, if I could trade Skubal and get all of those (multiple players in ATF’s trade proposals…) in the top 10-15 range... I'd do it. ... Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 11:51 AM, chasfh said: … position his team to get back to that same place no sooner than three years from now, which is 2028, at best, and probably more like 2029 or even 2030 (!!!). (HOLY FATALISM BATMAN !!!) For one thing, the fans would go absolutely ape**** (!!!) after … But what is arguably even worse is that Harris would lose the players in the organization … Riley Greene or Spencer Torkelson, Dillon Dingler, or a Jackson Jobe, or Kevin McGonigle or Max Clark or a dozen other ranked young talents (IT’S the END OF THE WORLD!!! JUST GIVE UP!!!) … but also, the free agents outside of this organization. What halfway decent free agent in his right mind is going to sign with a team operating with the expressed intent of going backward the year they come aboard? Who on god's green earth would want to sign up for that? And not only free agents this year, but free agents every single year Scott Harris is running this team. No top-tier free agent would ever want to devote … at any given moment, they are willing to blow it all up and go backwards because it might pay out four or five years now. Trading Tarik Skubal this winter is practically guaranteed to limit our prospective free agent pool to guys who are willing to sign one-year prove-it deals, and nothing more, for the rest of Harris's tenure with us. … (HOLY HYPERBOLE BATMAN!!!) (Like I said… END OF THE WORLD FATALISM!) After the Tigers win 3 straight World Series (Following the above theory: “But SCOTT HARRIS is running that team! I will NEVER sign with a team run by Scott Harris because…” Because Why?) In black and white. Fatalism: On 11/4/2025 at 1:08 PM, 4hzglory said: … Trading Skubal would all but guarantee the Tigers would be only getting FA's who need to rebuild their value, and that once homegrown players reach FA, if they are any good, they are likely gone. … (Because trading Skubal means ALL our pending FA’s will be traded. … NOT. There is NO PROOF that ALL future pending FA’s will just be traded. Where is this fatalism coming from? Especially since Harris has yet to have HIS team on the field, these are still mostly Avila’s players. I trust Harris to make GOOD judgements on which Avila players he wants to keep long term (I start with Dingler and Keith, plus…?), and which of his own players are good enough to sign to long-term extensions. Skubal is just too old to sign to a 10 year $400 mill contract, and is two years too early for a true Harris team. Plus pitchers like to blow out their arms and, again, he’ll be 30 years old at the START of any new contract in 2027… IMO. Again, IMO, I think trading Skubal means ZILCH for future extension/trade decisions. But maybe I’m being too Optimistic and should be more Fatalistic?)

What spin? Read the thread. It's all in here, black and white.

There's another dividing line, between those who: A) Believe that we can both trade Skubal AND sign other FA's or make other trades, and B) Those who believe that if we trade Skubal that that is the end of the Tigers. No one will want to sign with the Tigers. We will no longer be able to be a competitive team, starting in 2026. Nothing else counts or matters. Trade Skubal and it's the end of the Tigers.

So you believe Skubal should be traded for only players that suck?

100% I think the hyperventilating over what a terrible season in 2026 we'll have (ZERO chance at the playoffs!) if we trade Skubal... Is quite a bit overdone. And is severely myopic (to yours and several others' points, including mine... that OTHER moves ARE allowed by the Tigers) ... as if the Tigers aren't even allowed to make any other transactions once we trade Skubal because...? Because why? I don't know. Why aren't we allowed to make any other moves after we trade Skubal? I don't get it. Myopia is the only thing I can think of. And it shows a complete and absolute lack of faith in Scott Harris. IMO.

The Clash: "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" Interesting and excellent point...!

... break with the Tigers right out of Spring Training. Another thought: The Twins might POSSIBLY be open to trading Byron Buxton. I would be perfectly fine with trading Meadows and an extra AAA middle IF'er or two, for him. He's signed for 2026-28. The perfect guy, IMO, to bridge until Clark is ready. And when Clark does break into MLB... between the two of them they can slide around to create the best possible defensive OF. Greene can fit into whatever corner works best between those 3.

This is another good point. It means that 2026 is either UP or DOWN, all dependent on only ONE player (Skubal) that makes or breaks our season. I don't think that's a good place to be in, for any team. Also along those lines... I would think that we want to have 3 or 4 upper echelon stars on our team in order to have annual playoff hopes. At least. As a starting point. IMO. (These comments are not directed at you SoCal but at the general forum populace...) Which means... If Harris is looking at Clark-McGonigle as true top stars (sorry, I know this is only "potential"), and Tork/ Greene/ Carpenter/ Mize/ Keith? etc., etc., only as support players... and a team offers Harris what he believes can be an additional future (potential) top star or two or three... Shouldn't he take that offer? In order to have the requisite number of upper echelon stars that lead to annual playoff hunts? IMO... I believe he should be looking at exactly that.

Sorry Chas... but I gotta quote your post as it's the most apt for the following thoughts... After listening to Olney: I now 100% disagree with the sentiment in your post... And there are quite a few on here that have the same sentiments so to all who feel this way... Skubal's getting traded this offseason. 100% (IMO). The biggest detractive points are what has been outlined: Noone wants to empty their farm system. For only 1 year of a pitcher, no matter how good he is. And they're certainly not going to include any MLB talent. I mostly agree with this. EXCEPT... There is another way to think about this (I started thinking about this other thought-stream after listening to Buster), and it actually has been posted in this thread previously: And it's not just Cohen. There are others that are perfectly comfortable working with Boras. Dombrowski is another. The Dodgers are another. I'm not certain about the Red Sox. Maybe? Probably? The Blue Jays? Mariners? Dunno. But there are several with the "balls" to do just that. Trade for Skubal even without an immediate extension in place... That team is still going to be cocky enough to say "We'll sell him on us. He'll love this team and city. We'll do whatever it takes to keep him. We've worked with Boras before and we can do it again." What risk does that team take? The same as Detroit, with where we are at right now. One year of Skubal and only a Comp pick in 2027 to show for it. But there ARE teams that will take that risk... just as Hongbit pointed out. One other thing as Buster points out: After the 2026 season... who knows what happens with the new CBA negotiations. Teams in fact, right now, are shying away from major commitments in 2027. So... there is the real possibility that a team will WANT to take a big swing in 2026, even at the cost of quite a lot in prospect/ future control terms... for ONLY the one year of Skubal. They will try to re-sign him... but are PERFECTLY willing to wait until the new CBA is resolved. Meaning... not add in the cost of a new Skubal contract until then. And... That may actually HURT Boras/Skubal in free agency next year. Not that he WON'T get that massive offer... but that no one will get them offers until the new CBA. They, and all other 2027 FA's, may get stuck waiting for that to be resolved first. At least that's what I am getting from what Olney is saying...

He's not going to the bullpen. He's going on the roster as the 5th starter OR he's going to Toledo as the 6th/7th/8th starter... How ever that plays out. But... No, he's not going to the bullpen.

Bucks site says it is only a calf strain. Out a few weeks. So not serious. Although with age... The injuries, even minor ones, start to pop up more frequently...

Cade should give him a quick call...