1984Echoes

I'd want him on a Larkin-Raymond line. For keeps. But yeah... beyond doubtful this would happen...

Says YOU. It ABSOLUTELY is relevant.

For 25 years the Palestinians were perfectly fine with letting in Jews and selling land to Jews (roughly 1897-1921 or so...) And... THEN... They realized, just like the Mexicans (in Texas) around 1840 or so that... "WHOOPS!!!", maybe they were making a mistake...

They must really like Cossa and Edvinsson and Danielson and ASP and some of our other secondary prospects... Heck.. there's still Kasper and Augustine and Wallinder (if they like him) and Mazur... And...

Oh PLEASE let's not turn this thread topic into another referendum on religious belief. I thought we had an ACTUAL thread for that if you want to start up that argument again? Otherwise, it's just unnecessary and NOT-appreciated POLLUTION in this thread.

Less than 3 minutes in... Amiright?

I have NOT used that as a justification as you've stated. That is a flat out lie. I have ONLY used their genetics as a reason to state that they should be ALLOWED to live in Israel. In fact, I gave you links that state SPECIFICALLY that returning Jews PURCHASED Palestinian land. LEGALLY. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.

Let me correct some history here: There was a major trading economy from England to Pakistan prior to the Sea Peoples. Bronze and Lapis Lazuli were the keys. Lapis Lazuli = purple stone from Pakistan and the mountains of Afghanistan, crushed to make purple ("Royal") die to color robes, rugs, etc. Bronze = well, it WAS the Bronze Age after all... Bronze made of Copper and Tin. Tin all the way from England. This is the time of Mycenaean Greece (think Troy/ Achilles/ etc... NOT classical Greece of Athens & Sparta...); the Minoans had already been defeated by the Greeks (archaelogical evidence is pointing to volcanic/ earthquake/ tsunami disruption that badly weakened them and allowed Greece to take over much of the Mediterranean... This PRE-DATES the Sea Peoples); the Hittite Empire in Turkey, the highpoint of Egyptian Pharoahs and military power and pyramid-building, the Babylonian Empire, etc... Here is info on the trading network and especially the sourcing of tin (the first one is the impact of "The Sea Peoples" on the trading network of the time (roughly 1,200 BCE): which was: a collapse of the trading network, the first "Dark Ages", the destruction of the Mycenaean and Hittite empires, a devastation of the Egyptians (they survived but were taken over shortly thereafter by the Sudanese (of that time period), the collapse of writing, etc...): https://www.thecollector.com/bronze-age-collapse/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_sources_and_trade_in_ancient_times#:~:text=It has been claimed that,Portugal around the same time.

I never said they were the FIRST to inhabit the region. I said they CAME from that region, that region is their ANCESTRAL HOME, and they should be ALLOWED to go back to their homes without being MURDERED for it. Do you want me to get you the links to the beginning of Zionism? In 1897 a small percentage of the population decided it had had enough of European Pogroms, Inquisitions, Expulsions, etc... and started to go back to British Palestine (ancient Israel). The start of Zionism (literally: "returning home".) Also, I though this was directly relate to the Ukrainian pogrom in which roughly 250K Jews were beaten to death or burned to death (unverifiable number) in Ukraine by Christian Cossaks, but that happened between 1915 and 1920, so my timing is off. But NOT the reason they started to head back to their homeland. When they got there, they BOUGHT land. Built houses, drained swamps, created farms. Through PURCHASES from the Palestinians. Here is a history of land purchases by early Israeli Jews and also a history of the violence between Palestinians and Jews PRE-Dating Israel's Independence in 1947: https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/The-Arab-Revolt

Here's a REALLY GOOD one: Just how EXACTLY are Palestinians and Jews related...? Basically: First Cousins. From Science.Org: https://www.science.org/content/article/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry I LOVE this one (from the link I posted above)...: "More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years. The results match historical accounts that ...They were descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times. And in a recent study of 1371 men from around the world, geneticist Michael Hammer of the University of Arizona in Tucson found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews."

Hilarious? Dude... WTF does "kingdom" or "beliefs" or "burial customs" have anything to do with genetics? You're WAY out of your league and reaching for any straw you can grasp on to. Here, let me help you out (let me know if you need any help understanding the terminology): Definition of SEMITIC (Arabs, Jews, Akkadians & Phoenicians): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people#:~:text=Semitic people or Semites is,"Semitic languages" in linguistics. SEMITIC LANGUAGES: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Semitic-speaking_peoples GENETIC STUDIES of JEWS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_of_Jews#:~:text=Several genetic studies demonstrated that,Middle Eastern and European groups. Now, this is only Wikipedia... If you like, I'll add some scientific studies from Science magazine or Genetics or similar, or links to books that you can read up on to try and catch up. Let me know when you DO catch up because this conversation is finished until then.

Nope. No dice. No mercy. Fork over the frickin' FULL amount. But that's just me...

Wrong. YOU want the Israelis expelled from Israel, and the land given back to Palestinians because the Israelis "stole" their land back. Even though genetically & linguistically (scientifically PROVEN) they ARE from Israel. That would be similar to YOU demanding that Texas & California be RETURNED to Mexico because WE STOLE that land from Mexico. Or did you want ALL of us to return to our ancestral homes because ALL of us STOLE this land from the Native peoples? You didn't answer THAT question and instead asked if I should want to go back to Germany? You DON'T know the history of Israel. You DON'T know the history of Israelis. You apparently DON'T know that Hebrew is a Semitic language (meaning: FROM Israel...), so YES, you apparently have a seriously large BLACK HOLE in your understanding of history. NOT an insult. A simple FACT.

I don't read the bible, I'm an atheist. I read linguistic and ethnic histories, and historical population migration patterns. Semitic Israelis (Hebrew is Semitic) have been there, genetically and linguistically, for far more than that (6,000 years). So have the Semitic Palestinians. They are actually Semitic cousins, believe it or not. Semitic Iraqis (the non-Kurdish Sunni) are related tribes. Eastern Palestinians (Jordanians) are related tribes. Saudis are related. Would you like me to start pulling the genetic and linguistic studies that support these facts? Would that help?

I think Biden should offer Haley a position in his next administration. Whether that's Ambassador to the UN or something else... That would be a dagger...

My words and actions are in perfect alignment because I understand history. You apparently have a huge black hole in your thinking where it concerns history.

You didn't answer my question.

Jews belong in Israel. It's their land, historically (6,000 years ago...? You don't understand "time" very well at all, then.) Europe doesn't want them. And murdered them. And kicked them OUT (multiple times, from multiple countries: Spain, England, Germany, etc., etc.). Which country are you going to ALLOW them to live in, since you want ALL JEWS EXPELLED from Israel? They are NOT WELCOME in Europe, they are NOT ALLOWED to purchase Palestinian land according to you (which they have done for roughly 175 years (since PRE-1947, FYI), and you want them EXPELLED from Israel. So WHERE are you going to allow Israeli Jews to live, if not in their OWN country? I'd like to know where you are going to ALLOW them to live. Or do you just want all the Jews dead because.. that would be easier? I'm just asking.

See my next post...

Just so I understand this correctly: You are DEMANDING that the United States RETURN California, Texas, and several other states to MEXICO because it wasn't OUR land, it was THEIRS. We STOLE it. Do I have this correct?

Yes.

Israelis held Israel for 6,000 years (rough WAG) before Rome kicked them out for challenging Roman authority. This is NOT Biblically their land, it is HISTORICALLY their land. It was the Palestinians who took over Israeli homes & businesses and... The modern-day Israelis (since roughly 1850) have simply come home to take back their homes or BUY back their homes from Palestinians (for 100 years PRIOR to 1947). YEESH... The Palestinians BUILT their Mosque ON TOP OF the most sacred Jewish Temple, in Jerusalem, if you want to talk about THEFT.

You just quoted EXACTLY what I SAID. Not what YOU said: which was Bibi did it to create a foil to prop himself up. Which is a LIE. But as a "deterrent" or "bribe" to try to convince Hamas to NOT attack Israel. Try again.

Which has absolutely ZERO to do with what I posted and you quoted. Try again.

The Qatari money wasn't used to prop up Hamas. Complete BS. Hamas can't exist without Qatari money? That's what you're trying to peddle right now? Israel policy to allow Qatari money to slip though into Gaza was a POLICY decision thinking that Hamas might not conduct an attack on Israeli soil. (Almost like a bribe.. obviously, that didn't work.) It had absolutely ZERO to do with creating a foil for Bibi's own purposes. Dude, you are straight up fricking LYING to try and promote your agenda. Could you please STOP? At least stop LYING?