04/03/2023 8:10pm EDT Detroit Tigers vs Houston Astros

[lordstanley]

9 hours ago, mtutiger said:

It's only Game 4, but it feels like a huge win for everyone's psyche

When I was a kid, when I’d hear an announcer say that a win was good for a team’s morale I thought that meant morals. So I’d picture teammate after a win being nice to each other and complimenting each other and going out for dinner together. But after a loss arguing with each other and swearing and getting drunk and finding scapegoats on the team. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by lordstanley

[casimir]

This is a game the Tigers shouldn’t have won.  They didn’t necessarily control the strike zone (4 SOs & 5 BBs thrown vs 11 SOs & 4 BBs on offense), they had fielding issues (2 errors and a gift out at 2B that should have been overturned), the SP was knocked out before the 5th was over.  Heck, even though I thought Englert’s 3 IP were outstanding, everything was put into play, so thank the BABIP gods for good luck there.  Probably pretty fortunate to sneak this game into the win column.

[mtutiger]

14 minutes ago, casimir said:

This is a game the Tigers shouldn’t have won.  They didn’t necessarily control the strike zone (4 SOs & 5 BBs thrown vs 11 SOs & 4 BBs on offense), they had fielding issues (2 errors and a gift out at 2B that should have been overturned), the SP was knocked out before the 5th was over.  Heck, even though I thought Englert’s 3 IP were outstanding, everything was put into play, so thank the BABIP gods for good luck there.  Probably pretty fortunate to sneak this game into the win column.

No doubt, they were fortunate tonight, although in terms of "controlling the zone", give the Astros credit... they are going to win the K:BB ratio most nights against most teams.

For me, I don't think they are better than the Astros or anything, but they competed 11 innings (in AJ's words, had to win the game multiple times) and kept grinding and pulled it out. I still think what Wingenter did is a bit unheralded, getting out of the Bottom of the 10th if your team doesn't score in the top half seems nearly impossible with this new rule, and he did it with relative ease. 

Either way, the game reminded me a lot of the Minnesota game that ended on that horrendous toss to nowhere by Eric Haase last year, or their first game in Houston last year where they lost in the bottom of the 9th after Soto came in.... it was nice to see them win one of these for a change instead of finding a new way to lose. Hopefully it gives them some confidence going forward.

Edited April 4, 2023 by mtutiger

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, casimir said:

This is a game the Tigers shouldn’t have won

OTOH, I don't imagine a reliever that throws the other team's most dangerous hitter a batting practice pitch with two men on is likely to get too many more chances to do it again - even from the Tigers.

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

he got his glove on it. I'd say his mistake was he got up against the wall and left himself no room to jump/adjust. You have to stay off the wall far just enough to go up for the ball clean.

I don't know, looking at replays again, the ball hit really high up on the wall, ten or so feet up. I'm not exactly sure whether he got his glove on it, but it looks like it might have bounced off the wall first and hit the back of his outstretched glove and fell. I think someone would have had to read the ball right, take a direct route, camp under the ball, and leap up to snag it before it hit the wall. A plus left fielder could probably do that more often than not. Average fielders or less, I'm thinking maybe not so much.

https://www.mlb.com/video/jose-abreu-double-ties-the-game

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don't know, looking at replays again, the ball hit really high up on the wall, ten or so feet up. I'm not exactly sure whether he got his glove on it, but it looks like it might have bounced off the wall first and hit the back of his outstretched glove and fell. I think someone would have had to read the ball right, take a direct route, camp under the ball, and leap up to snag it before it hit the wall. A plus left fielder could probably do that more often than not. Average fielders or less, I'm thinking maybe not so much.

https://www.mlb.com/video/jose-abreu-double-ties-the-game

It sounded like it hit the scoreboard to me, you can hear the sound of contact with the scoreboard. Unless that sound was Meadows anyway.

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

It sounded like it hit the scoreboard to me, you can hear the sound of contact with the scoreboard. Unless that sound was Meadows anyway.

If you look at the video frame by frame (by dragging the progress bar), you can see the ball changes trajectory after hitting the board between where it says "TOR" and "KC", which has got to be some nine or so feet up, then the ball rides the top of Meadows' glove coming down for a few frames before separating and hitting the ground. It was not an easy play any left fielder could have gotten, is my point. I don't blame Meadows at all for not coming up with it.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

If you look at the video frame by frame (by dragging the progress bar), you can see the ball changes trajectory after hitting the board between where it says "TOR" and "KC", which has got to be some nine or so feet up, then the ball rides the top of Meadows' glove coming down for a few frames before separating and hitting the ground. It was not an easy play any left fielder could have gotten, is my point. I don't blame Meadows at all for not coming up with it.

the catch would have been hard because Austin didn't approach it optimally. A better OF gets to the wall, leaves himself a step so he can make the jump to adjust to the ball. Meadows certainly is capable of making that jump, he couldn't because he had already pinned himself against the wall. IOW, he was fielding the ball in a reactionary way instead of having been able to anticipate the play he should have made. And yes, that is exactly the difference between a plus OF and an average one.

[oblong]

I played OF in HS and always thought this and Kaline confirmed it.  Balls hit right at you are the hardest to play because you don't instinctively know whether to go left or right.  Plus you throw in that park with the high wall you probably hesitate in order to play it off the wall.  You have to factor in that it will be too high to even bother trying to catch so your move is to play it the best way off the wall, then you realize it's "catchable" and are scrambling.   The ball was also hit pretty hard, not much of an arc.  With a normal height wall there's little chance of a rebound so you can go all out because it's either a HR or a catch.  But with a trailing ball away from the LF you don't have the backup role by the CF as you would going the other way.  If the ball was hit to his left instead of right he could have gone back straight away because Greene is there to field it if needed.   All of those decisions in a second and half of action.  I can't fault him for that.

[chasfh]

24 minutes ago, oblong said:

I played OF in HS and always thought this and Kaline confirmed it.  Balls hit right at you are the hardest to play because you don't instinctively know whether to go left or right.  Plus you throw in that park with the high wall you probably hesitate in order to play it off the wall.  You have to factor in that it will be too high to even bother trying to catch so your move is to play it the best way off the wall, then you realize it's "catchable" and are scrambling.   The ball was also hit pretty hard, not much of an arc.  With a normal height wall there's little chance of a rebound so you can go all out because it's either a HR or a catch.  But with a trailing ball away from the LF you don't have the backup role by the CF as you would going the other way.  If the ball was hit to his left instead of right he could have gone back straight away because Greene is there to field it if needed.   All of those decisions in a second and half of action.  I can't fault him for that.

I've played outfield all through my adulthood—not that I'm a professional or anything—but I would say that as a result of my experience I can judge a high fly ball hit right to me almost perfectly, meaning I can tell almost right away whether I have to go in or back. The second most fun I have in the outfield—aside from busting after a ball and making an acrobatic catch—is when I judge a fly ball so perfectly I don't have move more than a single step from my starting position. Makes me feel like a genius for a few seconds.

What's super hard is a line drive hit right to me, especially in hardball (and especially after having played softball exclusively for a couple decades before taking up hardball again). Many were the times a line drive was hit to me, I instinctively froze trying to figure out whether it's shallow or deep, and it flies way way over my head to the wall for a triple. And I'm a guy who plays deep already, to the ongoing consternation of the captains of my various teams. (You know, guys who think being a team captain makes them a coach you're supposed to listen to about how to play your position that he knows practically nothing about.) Anyhow, nothing makes an outfielder feel stupider than having to chase a ball he misjudged that went over his head. That's why I hate Eddie Vedder.

Edited April 4, 2023 by chasfh