Investing

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

They passed the deal Biden negotiated.  24% raise over 5 years plus 1 extra paid sick day.  It did absolutely nothing to address the problems the unions were fighting against.  

The biggest problem is they have cut the workforce by 30% over the past few years.  So you are constantly working and even when not working you are on call 24/7 which means you can't plan anything.  

 

"that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

It amazes me that America has bought into so much right wing business propaganda claptrap about inviolability of the market etc.,  that we can't even figure out that an abuse like this is *exactly* what our particular government *is* supposed to exist to deal with. 

[Deleterious]

$4.4b in profits through Q3 2022 for BNSF (Berkshire owns them).  Can't hire some extra conductors at $110,000 a year.

OK so employees actually cost more than their yearly salary.  Most use 20%-25% of base pay to get the true cost.  So lets go high and say 25% which would be $137,500.  Lets go even further and say a nice $150,000.

Hiring 500 more conductors at $150,000 a year would cost BNSF $75,000,000.  They have made $4.4b through 3 quarters.  That would drop to $4.325b.

Fucking cocksuckers.

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

"that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

It amazes me that America has bought into so much right wing business propaganda claptrap about inviolability of the market etc.,  that we can't even figure out that an abuse like this is *exactly* what our particular government *is* supposed to exist to deal with. 

There are the words that established the ideal for this country, and then there are the actions that established the way this country actually operates. It is the actions of the gentry, especially the slaveholding planter portion, that really shaped how America was birthed and subsequently evolved. It can be seen in the way the language of the Constitution was compromised to appease the slaveholders and secure their buy-in to establish the union in the first place. The flowery revolutionary language of the Declaration never stood a chance against 18th-Century realpolitik. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

There are the words that established the ideal for this country, and then there are the actions that established the way this country actually operates. It is the actions of the gentry, especially the slaveholding planter portion, that really shaped how America was birthed and subsequently evolved. It can be seen in the way the language of the Constitution was compromised to appease the slaveholders and secure their buy-in to establish the union in the first place. The flowery revolutionary language of the Declaration never stood a chance against 18th-Century realpolitik. 

ain't it the truth?

I think one thing that has gotten even worse though is that through most of US history reformers have been able to go back to those aspirational ideas to challenge society to be better. Today the public seems either to jaded or disengaged or just numb to even feel the disconnect. They've bought into 'Murica! think - nothing is wrong, leave me alone.

[Screwball]

12 hours ago, Deleterious said:

They passed the deal Biden negotiated.  24% raise over 5 years plus 1 extra paid sick day.  It did absolutely nothing to address the problems the unions were fighting against.  

The biggest problem is they have cut the workforce by 30% over the past few years.  So you are constantly working and even when not working you are on call 24/7 which means you can't plan anything.  

 

Thanks. This saves me from wading through all the bullshit.

[Screwball]

12 hours ago, Deleterious said:

$4.4b in profits through Q3 2022 for BNSF (Berkshire owns them).  Can't hire some extra conductors at $110,000 a year.

OK so employees actually cost more than their yearly salary.  Most use 20%-25% of base pay to get the true cost.  So lets go high and say 25% which would be $137,500.  Lets go even further and say a nice $150,000.

Hiring 500 more conductors at $150,000 a year would cost BNSF $75,000,000.  They have made $4.4b through 3 quarters.  That would drop to $4.325b.

Fucking cocksuckers.

Berkshire - that's Warren Buffet the Bailout King.

Quote

“There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
― Warren Buffett

No shit Sherlock.  How's that happen?  By paying off a bunch of gutless whores?  Why, yes, yes it is.

[Deleterious]

I guess they can take down the suicide nets.

Apple Makes Plans to Move Production Out of China

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

I guess they can take down the suicide nets.

Apple Makes Plans to Move Production Out of China

You can't replace the scale of Foxxconn's production in any hurry. If they can get it to less than 50% in the next 36mo I'll be surprised.

[oblong]

A guy once jumped off the top floor in our building into the center atrium. You could see where they added a few feet of extra “wall”.  It didn’t match. Used to be about hip high to me with a bar.  Then it was solid to my chest. 

[Screwball]

2 hours ago, Deleterious said:

I guess they can take down the suicide nets.

Apple Makes Plans to Move Production Out of China

Good article.  Reading the headline, my first thought was where will production go? I had my hunches, and sure enough, FTA (first paragraph):

Quote

It is telling suppliers to plan more actively for assembling Apple products elsewhere in Asia, particularly India and Vietnam, they say, and looking to reduce dependence on Taiwanese assemblers led by Foxconn

There are so many things to parse out of this article, even though most of it looks so familiar from living in the world of Dilbert for all those years. The very next paragraph:

Quote

Turmoil at a place called iPhone City helped propel Apple’s shift. At the giant city-within-a-city in Zhengzhou, China, as many as 300,000 workers work at a factory run by Foxconn to make iPhones and other Apple products.

That number is the like the population of Pittsburgh. Incredible.

This gets ink because AAPL is huge, but this stuff goes on all the time. Labor and environmental arbitrage some might say. It's all about the bottom line.

I have to give them credit. They have globalized what we defined years ago as slave labor. But I suppose we always have.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

That number is the like the population of Pittsburgh. Incredible.

 

The scale that the Chinese work at is almost unfathomable - the roads, the cities, the whole deal. Supposedly at its peak, the Ford Rouge complex employed 100,000. Rouge in its day was probably far bigger than any single facility/complex operating in the US today (I've seen Boeing cited as the largest current US site at nearly 100 acres, Rouge was mulitples of that). Then imagine 3x that. Crazy.

Edited December 4, 2022 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

I believe rouge had its own zip code and unique post office 

[Deleterious]

I think Buick City was 250 acres and the largest before RR came along. You would drive past it on 475 and it seems like it went for miles. But I was a kid then.

As far as Apple goes. They are only moving some production out of China so it won't take that long. They already have plants in India so it's possible they have production capacity there.

Oddly enough, Apple's new 4nm chip will be manufactured at the new TSMC fab in Arizona.

[Screwball]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The scale that the Chinese work at is almost unfathomable - the roads, the cities, the whole deal. Supposedly at its peak, the Ford Rouge complex employed 100,000. Rouge in its day was probably far bigger than any single facility/complex operating in the US today (I've seen Boeing cited as the largest current US site at nearly 100 acres, Rouge was mulitples of that). Then imagine 3x that. Crazy.

I had heard about that place so I looked it up; Ford Rouge Complex  That's pretty big, but nothing like what China/Foxcon/AAPL do.  That article says you can still take a tour.  That would be cool.  I like that kind of stuff.  I was in the casting plat in Flat Rock during it's heyday. That place was large as well, and like a miniature city. I spent a few weeks in the Ford foundry in Windsor.  That was an incredible operation and quite large.

It would be interesting to know what happened to these old factories after NAFTA and the globalization push took root?  I know the Spicer plant in Toledo I worked at (around 5000 at it's peak) all went south to non-union sites, but mostly Mexico.  Now a large warehouse.

 

 

[Screwball]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

I think Buick City was 250 acres and the largest before RR came along. You would drive past it on 475 and it seems like it went for miles. But I was a kid then.

As far as Apple goes. They are only moving some production out of China so it won't take that long. They already have plants in India so it's possible they have production capacity there.

Oddly enough, Apple's new 4nm chip will be manufactured at the new TSMC fab in Arizona.

I don't follow AAPL (or chips) that close but from what I understand chip manufacturing requires a lot of water.  So building a plant in Arizona (desert) seems kind of strange.  Besides, there are water issues in the west.  Someone (INTC, I think) is building a chip plant around the Columbus, Ohio area (New Albany, I think) and I wonder where the water will come from there as well.

[Deleterious]

19 minutes ago, Screwball said:

I don't follow AAPL (or chips) that close but from what I understand chip manufacturing requires a lot of water.  So building a plant in Arizona (desert) seems kind of strange.  Besides, there are water issues in the west.  Someone (INTC, I think) is building a chip plant around the Columbus, Ohio area (New Albany, I think) and I wonder where the water will come from there as well.

Intel is also building one in Arizona.

You are right that it takes a ton of water but it doesn't use much water if that makes sense. I saw it compared to a swimming pool. It takes a lot initially but once you fill it you don't need a lot of water to continue. They recycle and reuse the water.

I also read Arizona is a favorite place because they rarely have natural disasters. So they don't have to have the same safety precautions you will in places with tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding, etc.

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

Intel is also building one in Arizona.

You are right that it takes a ton of water but it doesn't use much water if that makes sense. I saw it compared to a swimming pool. It takes a lot initially but once you fill it you don't need a lot of water to continue. They recycle and reuse the water.

I also read Arizona is a favorite place because they rarely have natural disasters. So they don't have to have the same safety precautions you will in places with tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding, etc.

They are finally understanding the value of home field production. It only took 5 years to begin the process. 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

I had heard about that place so I looked it up; Ford Rouge Complex  That's pretty big, but nothing like what China/Foxcon/AAPL do.  That article says you can still take a tour.  That would be cool.  I like that kind of stuff.  I was in the casting plat in Flat Rock during it's heyday. That place was large as well, and like a miniature city. I spent a few weeks in the Ford foundry in Windsor.  That was an incredible operation and quite large.

It would be interesting to know what happened to these old factories after NAFTA and the globalization push took root?  I know the Spicer plant in Toledo I worked at (around 5000 at it's peak) all went south to non-union sites, but mostly Mexico.  Now a large warehouse.

 

 

My grandma worked at the plant during WWII assembling engines for the M4 tanks that were built there. 

[Screwball]

1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

Intel is also building one in Arizona.

You are right that it takes a ton of water but it doesn't use much water if that makes sense. I saw it compared to a swimming pool. It takes a lot initially but once you fill it you don't need a lot of water to continue. They recycle and reuse the water.

I also read Arizona is a favorite place because they rarely have natural disasters. So they don't have to have the same safety precautions you will in places with tornadoes, hurricanes, flooding, etc.

Thanks, that makes sense.

[Screwball]

18 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

My grandma worked at the plant during WWII assembling engines for the M4 tanks that were built there. 

Times were different then for sure.  During the war these plants could change to making war toy parts because in those days manufacturing was a lot less specialized.  Mass production was not what it is now. They used machinists, tool & die makers, and manual labor to do many things.  Today it's all about just in time delivery, customized assembly lines, robots (where they can), process efficiency, and the cheapest labor possible (instead of skilled trades except where absolutely needed).

When I was at a large manufacturer back in the 2010s our line had to do something every 13 seconds.  Parts arrived on time, transported to the line, assembly people (outsourced to a job contracting agency - about 1/3 of the workforce) along the assembly line did their small but significant addition to the machine as it went by on the line.  They worked in groups of 5 or six, rotating jobs every couple of hours.  You might be adding a part to the machine for 2 hours, assembling sub-assemblies for another two hours, be a part gathering and support person for another 2, etc.

If it could be done robotically, it would eventually be a robot.  Robots don't screw off, don't call in sick, need smoke breaks, or go to the bathroom.  But when you need a warm body, call the head hunters and hire cheap labor.  They didn't need any skills, just a warm body that can put parts on a machine.  Engineers spend hours figuring out the ergonomics of the process.  We even 3D modeled people to simulate the process and ensure and prevent worker fatigue and limits. It is an industry within an industry.

Back when the pandemic hit many thought factories could just re-tool to make masks, respirators, testing kits, etc. but it's not that simple like it was back during the war when our tools were lathes, mills, welders, and other man operated machines to make parts.  An assembly line that made dishwashers could in no way be modified to make other kinds of parts, and that is only one example.

Using global slave labor (and environmental arbitrage ), complex supply chains, and highly improved process manufacturing (including robots and automation) is what gives us cheap goods we have today.  Nobody can or will buy a $6000 iPhone (for example).

[Deleterious]

Speaking of chips.  TSMC announced today they will build a second plant in Arizona.  The bumps their investment in AZ from $12b to $40b.

My favorite part of the article is Tim Cook urging TSMC to build more chips in the US.  Because Apple builds so much stuff in the US, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/tim-cook-biden-to-help-tsmc-unveil-40-billion-us-chip-buildout/ar-AA14XHft

Quote

Construction will begin at TSMC’s second Arizona site in the coming year with production slated to start in 2026. In addition to the over 10,000 construction workers who will help build the site, the two Arizona fabrication plants are expected to create an additional 10,000 high-paying high-tech jobs, including 4,500 direct TSMC jobs. 

The first plant will make advanced 4-nanometer chips when it comes online in 2024 and the second facility will make even more sophisticated 3-nanometer chips. However, when TSMC begins to make 3-nanometer chips in the US in 2026, its technology in Arizona will still lag at least one generation behind what’s available in Taiwan.

 

[gehringer_2]

51 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

its technology in Arizona will still lag at least one generation behind what’s available in Taiwan.

gotta start somewhere. To be within one generation in 4 yrs would be a pretty deal I think. The majority of chips that make the world go round - that go into IOT and garden variety 'smart' hardware - stuff like what MicroChip Tech makes - aren't at the cutting edge anyway but there are still profitable and an economic security issue. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Speaking of chips.  TSMC announced today they will build a second plant in Arizona.  The bumps their investment in AZ from $12b to $40b.

My favorite part of the article is Tim Cook urging TSMC to build more chips in the US.  Because Apple builds so much stuff in the US, right?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/tim-cook-biden-to-help-tsmc-unveil-40-billion-us-chip-buildout/ar-AA14XHft

 

Per the article, Biden is kiliin’ it.

[Deleterious]

He was a big donor to the left.  Now accusations he gave money to the right under the table.

FEC probe demanded after SBF 'admitted' making dark money donations

[Screwball]

43 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

He was a big donor to the left.  Now accusations he gave money to the right under the table.

FEC probe demanded after SBF 'admitted' making dark money donations

Funny; Billionaire conman Bernard Madoff arrested

Today, but from 2008.

This is nuts. At least Bernie ran a long known scam in which we know the mechanism he used to cheat people - not that that mattered, because that's what we do (He was one of the founders of the NASDAQ after all). While this guy seems to be a complete nut job used car salesman that has no clue on how markets work.

Hook, line, and sinker the fish lined up.

How the fuck does that happen?  Harry Markopolos is laughing his ass off, and I'm sure there were some Harry's out there. Nobody listened. Again. This movie gets old.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Screwball