holygoat Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: I'm not sure what happened to Sutton. He was one of the most under-appreciated players on the defense through the first eight weeks or so and then fell off a cliff in the playoffs. The competition was better, but it almost looked like he lost a step somewhere along the line due to injury or fatigue. It started when AG and Campbell decided to dial up the blitzes, which left Sutton on an island with the top receivers in the league. It was what Campbell was referencing when he said "You have to give up something to get something," and it worked overall. Sutton was getting cooked on a weekly basis, but the team was getting to the QB more and giving up fewer points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 15 hours ago, holygoat said: I hope they get their most pressing needs in FA or via trade, because A) you can better project what you're gonna get wrt performance, and B) I don't think Holmes considers immediate needs as much as he does ability/character in the draft. The problem with some free agents is a team pays for their reputation. Which is fine if they're still in their good years. But too many times, teams overpay and the player doesn't live up to his reputation. (Sutton?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 3 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said: I'm not sure what happened to Sutton. He was one of the most under-appreciated players on the defense through the first eight weeks or so and then fell off a cliff in the playoffs. The competition was better, but it almost looked like he lost a step somewhere along the line due to injury or fatigue. I go back to getting pressure or containment on the opposing QB. With the rules heavily favoring the offenses, it's very hard to cover receivers for extended time in today's NFL. But yeah, Sutton struggled covering other teams #1 receivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holygoat Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I don't think Sutton was ever considered a No 1 CB, was he? I think Mosely was expected to be our No 1 with Sutton the No 2, where I think he'd have been fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 4 hours ago, holygoat said: It started when AG and Campbell decided to dial up the blitzes, which left Sutton on an island with the top receivers in the league. It was what Campbell was referencing when he said "You have to give up something to get something," and it worked overall. Sutton was getting cooked on a weekly basis, but the team was getting to the QB more and giving up fewer points. I think this is it. Sutton lost safety coverage when we started to blitz more. No more safety coverage, he's now on an island as you point out... And he's getting burned by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 5 hours ago, holygoat said: I don't think Sutton was ever considered a No 1 CB, was he? I think Mosely was expected to be our No 1 with Sutton the No 2, where I think he'd have been fine. neither sutton nor mosely were #1 corners. that's why they wanted witherspoon in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On 1/28/2024 at 9:57 PM, AlaskanTigersFan said: Feel free to post your reviews. Here's mine (please note I am probably the least experienced person to talk about this)....... 1. Can't blame Campbell for this last loss. Too many dropped passes, flukes on plays, giving up a QB running for 75 yards up the middle when I'm faster than him.... Can't blame Campbell. My wife came in all excited as halftime was starting saying "They are up 17 points?!?!?! WOW!". I replied, "It ain't over yet, unfortunately....." 2. Maybe blame Aaron Glenn? - I know a lot of people like him and he's well-respected around the league. Honestly, if he goes though, I wouldn't mind. I'm hoping a team snags him as their new Head Coach. 3. The Lions need to invest in Cornerbacks. - Jerry Jacobs and Cam Sutton Blow.... Hard. I'm talking about the type of blowing you'd find on the corner of Woodward in a skirt. They both need to be cut. Each game has been more and more depressing to watch these two. 4. Lions Draft - CB, CB, DL, OL, WR would be my preference. They need two high Defensive backs and another rusher. Their DB's are the 3rd worst in the league and it cost em. Overall thoughts - Love Campbell's aggressiveness going on 4th down. He's a players coach and I love that he goes for it more than anyone else. - I'm still not sold on Goff being the QB of the future. I would love a more mobile guy and a QB that can actually throw a spiral. All of his throws are wobbly as all get out. - Going into the draft the Lions HAVE to focus on their secondary. They need to cut Jacobs and Sutton. They also need to replenish their Dline and O-line. - The Lions won a lot of games this year they shouldn't have. I am VERY surprised they made it this far. It was fun and exciting. Now having said that, even if I think they are a lot worse than most, blowing a 17-point lead is inexcusable. I get that there were some fluke plays but still, that's nuts. Some players need some soul-searching..... - The Lions overachieved this year but I think next year they have a chance to end up right where they ended this year. They could be a Super Bowl team with a new secondary and some depth. They should have cap space to spend to shore up some things. Here's hoping for one more tremendous draft to get them where they need to be...... I took a break after the way things ended. Looking back, I don't think the Lions really overachieved. I think the Lions did what we expected them to do in the regular season -- win the NFC North. And if we had been told that our playoff opponents would be the Rams and the Buccaneers (rather than the Rams and the Cowboys or Eagles), I think most of us would have expected them to win playoff games against those teams. If they overachieved anywhere, it was in the first half of the SF game. They caught the home team flat-footed and raced out to an early lead. Some of this was aggressive coaching, some of it was converting on several 3rd and longs to keep drives alive. In the second half, the talent deficit caught up with them, and the game ended the way pretty much all of us expected it would, and the way we would have expected at the start of the season. The fact that the NFC Championship game was as close as it was is a testament to Holmes's incredible drafting and Campbell's incredible coaching. Next season every player on that roster will show up to training camp expecting to play in the Super Bowl, and it will be a perfectly reasonable expectation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jason_R said: I took a break after the way things ended. Looking back, I don't think the Lions really overachieved. I think the Lions did what we expected them to do in the regular season -- win the NFC North. And if we had been told that our playoff opponents would be the Rams and the Buccaneers (rather than the Rams and the Cowboys or Eagles), I think most of us would have expected them to win playoff games against those teams. If they overachieved anywhere, it was in the first half of the SF game. They caught the home team flat-footed and raced out to an early lead. Some of this was aggressive coaching, some of it was converting on several 3rd and longs to keep drives alive. In the second half, the talent deficit caught up with them, and the game ended the way pretty much all of us expected it would, and the way we would have expected at the start of the season. The fact that the NFC Championship game was as close as it was is a testament to Holmes's incredible drafting and Campbell's incredible coaching. Next season every player on that roster will show up to training camp expecting to play in the Super Bowl, and it will be a perfectly reasonable expectation. I took a break too. Not so much due to the way things ended (though that probably made it a quicker exodus), but due to the fact that the amount of time I was spending here had led to deficiencies in my real life work product LOL. I'm caught up now, it's a weird feeling. There is no reason to believe that this run isn't repeatable, and then some. They know what it takes and should only get better. The North goes through Detroit, and this team has their eyes set even further. Edited February 4 by MichiganCardinal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said: I took a break too. Not so much due to the way things ended (though that probably made it a quicker exodus), but due to the fact that the amount of time I was spending here had led to deficiencies in my real life work product LOL. I'm caught up now, it's a weird feeling. There is no reason to believe that this run isn't repeatable, and then some. They know what it takes and should only get better. The North goes through Detroit, and this team has their eyes set even further. All season I assumed that SF would beat us by 20. The way Detroit ended the season, I talked myself into believing that they had all the momentum and SF had all the pressure, and the Lions really could go in there and pull it off. The first half made it seem like it really might happen. But the second half was more what might have been expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Jason_R said: The first half made it seem like it really might happen. But the second half was more what might have been expected. The second half, San Fran got lucky, very, very lucky. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 16 hours ago, Jason_R said: I took a break after the way things ended. Looking back, I don't think the Lions really overachieved. I think the Lions did what we expected them to do in the regular season -- win the NFC North. And if we had been told that our playoff opponents would be the Rams and the Buccaneers (rather than the Rams and the Cowboys or Eagles), I think most of us would have expected them to win playoff games against those teams. If they overachieved anywhere, it was in the first half of the SF game. They caught the home team flat-footed and raced out to an early lead. Some of this was aggressive coaching, some of it was converting on several 3rd and longs to keep drives alive. In the second half, the talent deficit caught up with them, and the game ended the way pretty much all of us expected it would, and the way we would have expected at the start of the season. The fact that the NFC Championship game was as close as it was is a testament to Holmes's incredible drafting and Campbell's incredible coaching. Next season every player on that roster will show up to training camp expecting to play in the Super Bowl, and it will be a perfectly reasonable expectation. No doubt that San Francisco was the more talented team but talent isn't why they lost the game. The Lions completely gave it away combined with bad luck, they weren't overwhelmed by any means. A drop on 4th down, a bounce off the helmet right into Aiyuk's hands, a fumble on a botched hand off, a drop on 3rd and 10 at 24-24, that's your ballgame right there in 4 quick botched plays in a matter of a few minutes. The Lions handed it to them on a silver platter, a honolulu blue and silver platter. The Niners got extremely lucky, flat out. One of the luckier wins that I've ever seen in a big game. With that said, there's some critical areas of the team that absolutely need a talent infusion so you don't have guys like Vildor in a position to not make a play on a ball, a #2 like Sutton getting shredded weekly by top receivers and no pass rush unless you're sending extra guys. Edited February 5 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 hours ago, NYLion said: No doubt that San Francisco was the more talented team but talent isn't why they lost the game. The Lions completely gave it away combined with bad luck, they weren't overwhelmed by any means. A drop on 4th down, a bounce off the helmet right into Aiyuk's hands, a fumble on a botched hand off, a drop on 3rd and 10 at 24-24, that's your ballgame right there in 4 quick botched plays in a matter of a few minutes. The Lions handed it to them on a silver platter, a honolulu blue and silver platter. The Niners got extremely lucky, flat out. One of the luckier wins that I've ever seen in a big game. With that said, there's some critical areas of the team that absolutely need a talent infusion so you don't have guys like Vildor in a position to not make a play on a ball, a #2 like Sutton getting shredded weekly by top receivers and no pass rush unless you're sending extra guys. Yes Detroit missed plays in the second half, but they missed plays because SF also has talent. If SF was not more talented they would not have been able to catch back up from such a large deficit. The pinpoint first down pass to Jusczyk where he laid out on his tiptoes was not luck. That was pure skill, both from Purdy and the receiver. If Aiyuk was not highly skilled he would not have caught that ball on the deflection. CMC made a couple of outstanding plays in the second half. So did the defense to take away Detroit’s run game which had been churning out big plays in the first half. You can’t chalk up their second half domination to luck. Yes, Detroit missed some plays but SF made them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 58 minutes ago, Jason_R said: You can’t chalk up their second half domination to luck. Yes, Detroit missed some plays but SF made them. Sure you can, sports are a measure of skill, a measure of luck and a measure of randomness. Not everything that happens can be attributed to skill. If you call an errant pass that goes though a defenders hands, hits him in the helmet and ricochets perfectly into the receivers arms while in midair, skill, you're nuts. If you call being gifted a fumble in the red zone, Detroit receivers dropping passes they catch in their sleep, desperation scrambles on 3rd and long by Purdy, who's slower than Goff, if you call that skill, you're nuts. Are they a talented team? Sure, but they got lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jason_R said: Yes Detroit missed plays in the second half, but they missed plays because SF also has talent. If SF was not more talented they would not have been able to catch back up from such a large deficit. The pinpoint first down pass to Jusczyk where he laid out on his tiptoes was not luck. That was pure skill, both from Purdy and the receiver. If Aiyuk was not highly skilled he would not have caught that ball on the deflection. CMC made a couple of outstanding plays in the second half. So did the defense to take away Detroit’s run game which had been churning out big plays in the first half. You can’t chalk up their second half domination to luck. Yes, Detroit missed some plays but SF made them. The Reynolds drops had nothing to do with the Niners talent. Those two drops were massive gamechangers. I fully believe that if Reynolds catches that first 4th down, the Lions win this game and probably not by an insignificant margin. The 3rd and 10 drop he was WIDE open and Goff put it right into his chest, that had nothing to do with talent, and that could have stemmed the momentum at 24-24 then who knows. The Gibbs fumble was him going the wrong way on the handoff and losing full grip of the ball, that was a mental error not a lack of talent. One can argue that Vildor not making that catch was due to lack of talent at the position so that one I'd agree on.The Niners made some plays after the gifts and they're the more talented team on paper but the Lions coughed this one up. The Niners got really lucky that the Lions choked. In any event, what's done is done so we'll see how Holmes plugs the holes this offseason because this was a golden opportunity missed by the Lions with a team that just seemed to have destiny on their side with a fairly undermanned roster compared to The Final 4 teams at least. It's going to get harder next season, the division isn't soft anymore and the schedule, on paper, looks tougher so hopefully the Lions are up to the challenge. Edited February 5 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 hours ago, Jason_R said: Yes Detroit missed plays in the second half, but they missed plays because SF also has talent. If SF was not more talented they would not have been able to catch back up from such a large deficit... No one is arguing against that. The 49'ers were skilled enough to take advantage of a few Lions bad plays to win the game. The 49'ers are a very skilled, experienced, top-notch team. Credit to the 49'ers for being such a highly skilled team and for pulling out that win. But they don't win that game without some luck. Or Lions bad luck/ bad plays if you will. Josh Reynolds still had the drops, regardless of how talented the 49'ers are. The Lions made several bad plays that fell directly into the 49'ers hands. If the Lions don't make those bad plays... 49'ers "hands" is completely irrelevant, no matter how talented they are. They won that game, with both skill.... and luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holygoat Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Talk yo' s**t. Brad was feisty today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 16 hours ago, Longgone said: If you call an errant pass that goes though a defenders hands, hits him in the helmet and ricochets perfectly into the receivers arms while in midair, skill, you're nuts. Who had the skill on that play, Aiyuk or Vildor? Vildor could have made a relatively easy play but blew it. Aiyuk had to make a relatively hard play and made it. That play really distilled the skill disparity between the teams that showed up throughout the game. Luck doesn’t explain anything but the inability to understand how talented and practiced a person has to be to make the play Aiyuk made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Well, we do know that Purdy didn't have the skill since he bounced it off a defender's face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jason_R said: That play really distilled the skill disparity between the teams that showed up throughout the game. ... Luck doesn’t explain anything but the inability to understand how talented and practiced a person has to be to make the play Aiyuk made. That certainly explains why Josh Reynolds dropped two balls that he catches 9 out of 10 times... Edited February 6 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, Jason_R said: Who had the skill on that play, Aiyuk or Vildor? Vildor could have made a relatively easy play but blew it. Aiyuk had to make a relatively hard play and made it. That play really distilled the skill disparity between the teams that showed up throughout the game. Luck doesn’t explain anything but the inability to understand how talented and practiced a person has to be to make the play Aiyuk made. Just curious, do you not believe in the concept of luck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 17 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: No one is arguing against that. The 49'ers were skilled enough to take advantage of a few Lions bad plays to win the game. The 49'ers are a very skilled, experienced, top-notch team. Credit to the 49'ers for being such a highly skilled team and for pulling out that win. But they don't win that game without some luck. Or Lions bad luck/ bad plays if you will. Josh Reynolds still had the drops, regardless of how talented the 49'ers are. The Lions made several bad plays that fell directly into the 49'ers hands. If the Lions don't make those bad plays... 49'ers "hands" is completely irrelevant, no matter how talented they are. They won that game, with both skill.... and luck. A very rare Gibbs fumble. A very rare dropped pass by Reynolds. Another very rare dropped pass from Reynolds. A long pass play completion on what (should) could have been an interception. A punt that very easily could have been downed at the 49'er goal line. 5 lucky plays that involved zero skill on the 49'er part. If the Lions made those 5 plays, they would be in Vegas right now. Chiefs by 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/5/2024 at 9:37 AM, NYLion said: No doubt that San Francisco was the more talented team but talent isn't why they lost the game. The Lions completely gave it away combined with bad luck, they weren't overwhelmed by any means. A drop on 4th down, a bounce off the helmet right into Aiyuk's hands, a fumble on a botched hand off, a drop on 3rd and 10 at 24-24, that's your ballgame right there in 4 quick botched plays in a matter of a few minutes. The Lions handed it to them on a silver platter, a honolulu blue and silver platter. The Niners got extremely lucky, flat out. One of the luckier wins that I've ever seen in a big game. With that said, there's some critical areas of the team that absolutely need a talent infusion so you don't have guys like Vildor in a position to not make a play on a ball, a #2 like Sutton getting shredded weekly by top receivers and no pass rush unless you're sending extra guys. Yes, a consistent pass rush was a huge problem. So was containment, Purdy had a few huge runs. And adding to the luck, don't forget the punt the Lions weren't able to down at the one yard line. That play was overlooked in the 49'er ability to comeback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jason_R said: Who had the skill on that play, Aiyuk or Vildor? Vildor could have made a relatively easy play but blew it. Aiyuk had to make a relatively hard play and made it. That play really distilled the skill disparity between the teams that showed up throughout the game. Luck doesn’t explain anything but the inability to understand how talented and practiced a person has to be to make the play Aiyuk made. Pure, unmitigated, flukey luck. 90% of the league's receivers could make that catch after it bounced right back to him. Vildor deflects it even slightly, or it misses or deflects obliquely off the helmet, and there's no chance. Edited February 6 by Longgone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.