CFP semi-final: #1 Michigan against a school named after a type of Chili or #2 Michigan vs. a team who couldn't even win the SEC

[romad1]

The most amazing number to me is the endowment.  It doesn't compare to the $53B Harvard one but still very substantial and indicative that some of M's grads have gone on to make some coin.

[romad1]

11 minutes ago, romad1 said:

The most amazing number to me is the endowment.  It doesn't compare to the $53B Harvard one but still very substantial and indicative that some of M's grads have gone on to make some coin.

was just looking at the Regents meeting minutes on that site you sent G2, the $17B number appears to be pretty accurate.

https://regents.umich.edu/files/meetings/12-21/2021-12-II-1.pdf

Edited December 7, 2021 by romad1

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I think Cade is a better QB than Georgia's Stetson Bennett at this point, if you compare how they played in their respective championship games. Granted, we played Iowa and Georgia played Alabama. Cade is smart with the football and plays as mistake free of a game as you can.

[Motor City Sonics]

I lived in Athens, Ga.    I loved it there.   Cool town.   Much less snobby than Ann Arbor, which I also love.   Athens was much more affordable too (at least back then, not so much now).    Ann Arbor had The Stooges and Bob Seger,  Athens had R.E.M. and The B-52s.    I wore shorts in January in Athens.  They all thought I was crazy.     40 Watt Club and Blind Pig both had the same vibe. I like both equally.    Both had great record stores back in the day.   Athens gets high with a balloon festival these days,  Ann Arbor gets high with Hash Bash.     Ann Arbor is losing it's personality as the old hippies that opened businesses are retiring and their businesses are being replaced with chains.   I don't know if that is happening in Athens.    Athens had The Varsity (it's moved) and Weaver D's (Automatic For The People).   Ann Arbor has Zingerman's and the Fleetwood (hippie has browns).    Athens was 90 mins. away from Atlanta,   Ann Arbor is 40 minutes from Detroit.  

Edited December 7, 2021 by Motor City Sonics

[romad1]

24 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I lived in Athens, Ga.    I loved it there.   Cool town.   Much less snobby than Ann Arbor, which I also love.   Athens was much more affordable too (at least back then, not so much now).    Ann Arbor had The Stooges and Bob Seger,  Athens had R.E.M. and The B-52s.    I wore shorts in January in Athens.  They all thought I was crazy.     40 Watt Club and Blind Pig both had the same vibe. I like both equally.    Both had great record stores back in the day.   Athens gets high with a balloon festival these days,  Ann Arbor gets high with Hash Bash.     Ann Arbor is losing it's personality as the old hippies that opened businesses are retiring and their businesses are being replaced with chains.   I don't know if that is happening in Athens.    Athens had The Varsity (it's moved) and Weaver D's (Automatic For The People).   Ann Arbor has Zingerman's and the Fleetwood (hippie has browns).    Athens was 90 mins. away from Atlanta,   Ann Arbor is 40 minutes from Detroit.  

I have no doubt that Athens is a fun town.  The only thing that condemns it for me is the existence of the song "Love Shack" by Athens natives the B-52s, a song so repulsive that i once went happily to a month deployment to the desert to avoid its constant airplay on MTV and the radio. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by romad1

[lordstanley]

Most recent Michigan appearance:

Football playoff - 2021, title 1997

Baseball World Series - 2019, championship game 2019, title 1962

Hockey Frozen Four - 2018, championship game 2011, title 1998

Basketball Final Four - 2018, championship game 2018, title 1989

So the final four of four sports within the past four years  

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by lordstanley

[Mr.TaterSalad]

14 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Basketball Final Four - 2018, championship game 2018, title 1989

I'm calling timeout on this one because we should have been a Championship team last year, stupid UCLA.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'm calling timeout on this one because we should have been a Championship team last year, stupid UCLA.

that kid for UCLA played out of his mind.  give him his due. 

[romad1]

Interesting thing I just read

University of Alabama Endowment $1.42B

University of Cincinnati Endowment $1.4B

 

[buddha]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:02 PM, RandyMarsh said:

There are definitely some differences between all the players involved though.

For one even though JJ was a 5 star recruit he was nowhere near viewed as highly as Henson who was viewed as a unicorn type prospect. Not just by Michigan fans but the national media a like.

Just for one example I remember Kiper saying that if he didn't choose baseball there was a real chance he could've given Vick a run for the number 1 pick that year and that's saying something cause Vick as well was viewed as this generational prospect.

Then as far as Cade goes, no he isn't going to be Tom Brady but going by where they were at their respective points I think Cade is probably viewed in higher regard. Unlike Brady, Cade was a sought after recruit and borderline 5 star guy, like the article said even schools like Bama offered him a scholarship and they don't do that for scrubs.

Btw just gotta say the highlight of my HS Athletic career my "Al Bundy 4td in the city championship" if you will moment was going 1 for 3 with a double off Henson. That game was the closest I would ever come to playing in a big time game considering Henson drew monster crowds everywhere he went. Anyway the double came when I was late on a fb but I barreled it for a double just inside the 1b line. I should've asked for the ball after. Lol

let us not forget that tom brady was a high 4 * recruit and thought of as the best high school qb in california the year he declared.  much better recruit than cade.

[buddha]

16 hours ago, romad1 said:

The most amazing number to me is the endowment.  It doesn't compare to the $53B Harvard one but still very substantial and indicative that some of M's grads have gone on to make some coin.

yet tuition is how much per year?

those endowments make me puke.

[Motor City Sonics]

13 hours ago, romad1 said:

I have no doubt that Athens is a fun town.  The only thing that condemns it for me is the existence of the song "Love Shack" by Athens natives the B-52s, a song so repulsive that i once went happily to a month deployment to the desert to avoid its constant airplay on MTV and the radio. 

Funny, that's how I feel about 'Old Time Rock & Roll' by Bob Seger.  The song makes me violently angry I hate it so much. 

[Motor City Sonics]

10 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Most recent Michigan appearance:

Football playoff - 2021, title 1997

Baseball World Series - 2019, championship game 2019, title 1962

Hockey Frozen Four - 2018, championship game 2011, title 1998

Basketball Final Four - 2018, championship game 2018, title 1989

So the final four of four sports within the past four years  

 

So, no titles in 23 years..............

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Funny, that's how I feel about 'Old Time Rock & Roll' by Bob Seger.  The song makes me violently angry I hate it so much. 

I'm with you there.  I will listen to "Turn the Page" and "Mainstreet" and for B-52s will listen to "Roam" or "Rock Lobster" but yes, "Old Time Rock and Roll" and "Love Shack" are long sharp needles to my ears.

[romad1]

33 minutes ago, buddha said:

yet tuition is how much per year?

those endowments make me puke.

People who don't value education make me puke.

[buddha]

7 hours ago, romad1 said:

People who don't value education make me puke.

what does having a $53 billion endowment yet still charging people over 100k per year to attend your school have to do with valuing education?  

especially michigan, which is supposed to be a public school.  having $17 billion in endowment while charging kids what they do runs against the educational mission on the institution.

its obscene.

[romad1]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

what does having a $53 billion endowment yet still charging people over 100k per year to attend your school have to do with valuing education?  

especially michigan, which is supposed to be a public school.  having $17 billion in endowment while charging kids what they do runs against the educational mission on the institution.

its obscene.

There are worse entities out there than any university.   I have been seeing this "Conservative" trope lately about how our kids don't need to have their ideas challenged by the satanists in the ivory towers of academia and we'd all be better off if most went to trade school.

I'm disgusted by the classism involved.
 

Edited December 8, 2021 by romad1

[buddha]

Just now, romad1 said:

There are worse entities out there than any university.

ok.  that has nothing to do with obscenely large endowments at universities who continue to charge obscenely large rates of tuition to students.

if anything, assembling those huge endowments while refusing to use them to actually educate people should make you puke, not brag about michigan.

[romad1]

Just now, buddha said:

ok.  that has nothing to do with obscenely large endowments at universities who continue to charge obscenely large rates of tuition to students.

if anything, assembling those huge endowments while refusing to use them to actually educate people should make you puke, not brag about michigan.

Refusing to educate

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

what does having a $53 billion endowment yet still charging people over 100k per year to attend your school have to do with valuing education?  

especially michigan, which is supposed to be a public school.  having $17 billion in endowment while charging kids what they do runs against the educational mission on the institution.

its obscene.

The published tuition numbers from private schools are sort of a joke. Very few people pay them. They exist like a kind of graduated income tax on 1%er legacies. Yes, it's a silly system, but after a family turns in a FAFSA, even the most nominally expensive schools will support a student down to the same family income contribution level. The net result is the actual tuition requirement may magically end up about the same as that student would be paying at at good out state public university. The hard part at 'good' schools is more admissions than money. When a school gets 5 times as many qualified applicants as it has spots, getting in becomes a lottery perforce. UM gets 80K applications/yr.

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works

And this what you can do when you have endowment money, BTW

https://goblueguarantee.umich.edu/

Edited December 8, 2021 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

what has changed is that states used to underwrite a big part of higher ed. The great 'success' of the GOP/Corporate led race to force states to compete to cut taxes, is that states don't have the money to do that anymore. College is more expensive *everywhere* because tuition carries a higher % of the cost load today. You can see the truth of this in the fact that the real cost difference (as actually paid by students and described above) between the costs of a private vs public university education has fallen substantially in 40 yrs.

[buddha]

26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The published tuition numbers from private schools are sort of a joke. Very few people pay them. They exist like a kind of graduated income tax on 1%er legacies. Yes, it's a silly system, but after a family turns in a FAFSA, even the most nominally expensive schools will support a student down to the same family income contribution level. The net result is the actual tuition requirement may magically end up about the same as that student would be paying at at good out state public university. The hard part at 'good' schools is more admissions than money. When a school gets 5 times as many qualified applicants as it has spots, getting in becomes a lottery perforce.

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works

And this what you can do when you have endowment money, BTW

https://goblueguarantee.umich.edu/

https://publicaffairs.vpcomm.umich.edu/key-issues/tuition/general-fund-budget-tutorial/

michigan budgeted $1.7 billion in revenue from tuition and fees for 2022.

[romad1]

I'll just say that obscenities abound in this day and age.  Calling the institution that puts scientists and astronauts into the World, obscene because that institution benefits from ridiculous donations from alums who want to glorify their own names with buildings and endowments named after themselves seems just a tad too much.

Why they could build hospitals with that money!  What is Mott?

They could cure diseases with that money!  What is the human genome project?

They don't do everything right or for the right reasons but heck if there aren't much worse institutions out there.   This isn't the Saudi royal family sitting on a pile of cash torturing anyone who gainsays them.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

https://publicaffairs.vpcomm.umich.edu/key-issues/tuition/general-fund-budget-tutorial/

michigan budgeted $1.7 billion in revenue from tuition and fees for 2022.

correct  - tuition and fees cover 80% of costs today, they used to cover 25%. It's basically the same budget model as a private school. The proportionally larger endowments at someplace like an Ivy generates roughly the same percentage contribution at a Yale that the state does at Michigan. But higher Ed costs more everywhere.

So here are the numbers:

go all the way back to before inflation - say 1968- which is convenient yr as my sister started at UM that year. Total UM enrollment today is 50K.

Tuition for a year in '68 was $350. UM claims that was 23% of the costs at that time, so total cost of educating her was $1460 of which the state was kicking in $1,110. There was not a lot of research money in those days so let's assume the general fund was essentially tuition plus state appropriation. The price deflator since then is 8.28. So in today's dollars, the state should be kicking in $9180 per student. For a total enrollment of 50K, that would be $459M. Actual state support is $322M. The difference is $2.7K per student. The $2.4B general fund works out to $48K being spent per student educated(!). The $1.8B in tuition comes out to $34K/student. If the state had kept up, reduce that to $31K. So the U's line that tuition increases are all about reductions in state funding is not exactly accurate though it is a big chunk-o-change. But the real increase in University spending per student since '68 adjusting for inflation is from $12K ($1460*8.28) to $48K, or almost a quadrupling!

When I look around campus, the question is always - where is that money? Being a college professor has not really changed much in terms of economic class - still solidly upper middle, and a lot of the instructional staff is well below full professor pay grade. If you believe the charts, G&A is not all that terrible. At the engin school one huge change is the sq footage of architecture per student. The physical plant per student has exploded. But the Engin School is the outlier - it raises a lot of it's own money via research and and it employs a lot of non-student/non-faculty full time scientists who are largely self supporting. But the E-school just isn't that big a part of the budget total. So where is it? 

Edited December 8, 2021 by gehringer_2

[romad1]

14 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

correct  - tuition and fees cover 80% of costs today, they used to cover 25%. It's basically the same budget model as a private school. The proportionally larger endowments at someplace like an Ivy generates roughly the same percentage contribution at a Yale that the state does at Michigan. But higher Ed costs more everywhere.

So here are the numbers:

go all the way back to before inflation - say 1968- which is convenient yr as my sister started at UM that year. Total UM enrollment today is 50K.

Tuition for a year in '68 was $350. UM claims that was 23% of the costs at that time, so total cost of educating her was $1460 of which the state was kicking in $1,110. There was not a lot of research money in those days so let's assume the general fund was essentially tuition plus state appropriation. The price deflator since then is 8.28. So in today's dollars, the state should be kicking in $9180 per student. For a total enrollment of 50K, that would be $459M. Actual state support is $322M. The difference is $2.7K per student. The $2.4B general fund works out to $48K being spent per student educated(!). The $1.8B in tuition comes out to $34K/student. If the state had kept up, reduce that to $31K. So the U's line that tuition increases are all about reductions in state funding is not exactly accurate though it is a big chunk-o-change. But the real increase in University spending per student since '68 adjusting for inflation is from $12K ($1460*8.28) to $48K, or almost a quadrupling!

When I look around campus, the question is always - where is that money? Being a college professor has not really changed much in terms of economic class - still solidly upper middle, and a lot of the instructional staff is well below full professor pay grade. If you believe the charts, G&A is not all that terrible. At the engin school one huge change is the sq footage of architecture per student. The physical plant per student has exploded. But the Engin School is the outlier - it raises a lot of it's own money via research and and it employs a lot of non-student/non-faculty full time scientists who are largely self supporting. But the E-school just isn't that big a part of the budget total. So where is it? 

I am sitting in a doctor’s office so don’t have the ability to do so but would have posted George Bailey’s “the money isn’t here because it’s …” speech from “it’s a Wonderful Life”