chasfh Posted June 19 Posted June 19 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: They seem to be doing all that, but I don't think there is any timeline where we can expect the plan to be met. I don't think there is any specific point where we can say they accomplished what they set out to do. It's very fluid. Maybe Clark and Anderson will help next year, but Skubal and Torres and perhaps Mize will be gone. So, I don't know that they'll necessarily be closer to winning a championship. They they might add some more prospects after that but then Greene, Carpenter, Torkelson will be gone. The future is now and at this point I think the plan should be to try to have a contending team every year. They had a contending team in 2024 and 2025, to the surprise of everyone. They tried for that again this year and misfired. They did not foresee suffering the second most injuries of any organization in baseball, and they did not foresee certain of their young players failing to take the step forward their trajectories seemed to suggest while other complementary players completely shat their beds. And now they have decisions to make that they didn't believe they would have to. I would guess they will still be sticking to their overall plan as stated in that link above I shared with you, rather than either (1) blowing it all up, trading every breathing player on the team, and starting the rebuild all over, which would be a dramatic departure from their stated plans; or (2) liquidating the top of their system to trade for one or two established players to go for it all this year, which would also be a dramatic departure from their stated plans. So the point I was making was, fans and maybe also the media will hate whatever path they take that does not result in either a pennant this year or a complete gutting of the team to start over, so Harris might as well continue on with the plan framework he established in his 2022 introductory press conference. Edited June 19 by chasfh Quote
NorthWoods Posted June 19 Posted June 19 48 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: They seem to be doing all that, but I don't think there is any timeline where we can expect the plan to be met. I don't think there is any specific point where we can say they accomplished what they set out to do. It's very fluid. Maybe Clark and Anderson will help next year, but Skubal and Torres and perhaps Mize will be gone. So, I don't know that they'll necessarily be closer to winning a championship. They they might add some more prospects after that but then Greene, Carpenter, Torkelson will be gone. The future is now and at this point I think the plan should be to try to have a contending team every year. I know you can never have enough pitching, etc, etc. But looking ahead i see the Tigers ok for a Rotation: Valdez-Montero-Melton-Jobe-Madden at least as a core plus whatever reinforcements are out there with the Skubal/Verlander/Flaherty/Mize/Torres $$. Going forward it seems we can fill the infield pretty well with Keith/McGonigle/Lee/Anderson. Tork at 1B is a question to replace or upgrade. Would Briceno or Liranzo be ready? Move Green there? Carpenter? Where we really need help is OF. As has been repeated often that's why the Dodgers make so much sense as they have 4 highly rated OF prospects. If Clark is ready and we can solve the other OF spots this team will be a much better offense next year. Quote
Tigermojo Posted June 19 Posted June 19 12 minutes ago, NorthWoods said: I know you can never have enough pitching, etc, etc. But looking ahead i see the Tigers ok for a Rotation: Valdez-Montero-Melton-Jobe-Madden at least as a core plus whatever reinforcements are out there with the Skubal/Verlander/Flaherty/Mize/Torres $$. Tigersfan gear Going forward it seems we can fill the infield pretty well with Keith/McGonigle/Lee/Anderson. Tork at 1B is a question to replace or upgrade. Would Briceno or Liranzo be ready? Move Green there? Carpenter? Where we really need help is OF. As has been repeated often that's why the Dodgers make so much sense as they have 4 highly rated OF prospects. If Clark is ready and we can solve the other OF spots this team will be a much better offense next year. I've been really impressed with the young pitchers. That gives me some hope going forward. Really disappointed in some of our hitters going from average to just plain bad. I do like some of the young players in the minors so that could end up a strength. Quote
NorthWoods Posted June 19 Posted June 19 1 hour ago, Tigermojo said: I've been really impressed with the young pitchers. That gives me some hope going forward. Really disappointed in some of our hitters going from average to just plain bad. I do like some of the young players in the minors so that could end up a strength. Unless I've got something wrong those contracts coming off the books total around $85M so there should be some $$ to spend. Quote
Sports_Freak Posted June 20 Posted June 20 Are there any clickbait articles that say "Tigers plan to extend Tarik Skubal?" hmmm.....no chance, huh? My prediction...going against everyone and even common sense? Skubal will sign with Detroit. Quote
NorthWoods Posted June 20 Posted June 20 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: Are there any clickbait articles that say "Tigers plan to extend Tarik Skubal?" hmmm.....no chance, huh? My prediction...going against everyone and even common sense? Skubal will sign with Detroit. It would be a shocker. I think he'd have to fire Boras 1st. Quote
chasfh Posted June 22 Posted June 22 (edited) Possibly bad news for anyone salivating at the … ahem … prospect of getting a “haul” for Tarik Skubal After all, the Tigers have quietly gotten things back on the right track in June: They are 11-6 (.647) this month, the third-best record in the Majors and best in the AL, entering Monday night's series opener against the Yankees at Comerica Park Their pitching staff has MLB's second-lowest ERA (3.12) Their lineup has hit the second-most homers (35) Even their defense, which had ranked 27th in April in Statcast's Fielding Run Value with a minus-11 mark, has shown a turnaround, rising to 11th-best in May and June, coming in with a solidly above-average +5. It’s now been a month since the Tigers had a starting pitcher allow more than four runs in a game, a 24-game run that’s currently the longest active streak in the Majors. Edited June 22 by chasfh Quote
Tigermojo Posted June 22 Posted June 22 6 minutes ago, chasfh said: Possibly bad news for anyone salivating at the … ahem … prospect of getting a “haul” for Tarik Skubal After all, the Tigers have quietly gotten things back on the right track in June: They are 11-6 (.647) this month, the third-best record in the Majors and best in the AL, entering Monday night's series opener against the Yankees at Comerica Park Their pitching staff has MLB's second-lowest ERA (3.12) Their lineup has hit the second-most homers (35) Even their defense, which had ranked 27th in April in Statcast's Fielding Run Value with a minus-11 mark, has shown a turnaround, rising to 11th-best in May and June, coming in with a solidly above-average +5. It’s now been a month since the Tigers had a starting pitcher allow more than four runs in a game, a 24-game run that’s currently the longest active streak in the Majors. They need it for the rest of the season. To have a winning record, they need to play as well as TB has so far. Only five MLB teams have done that at this point. For a playoff spot they would probably have to be one of the best teams. Quote
Tiger337 Posted June 22 Posted June 22 20 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: For a playoff spot they would probably have to be one of the best teams. Which is the way it should be! Quote
chasfh Posted June 22 Posted June 22 3 hours ago, Tigermojo said: They need it for the rest of the season. To have a winning record, they need to play as well as TB has so far. Only five MLB teams have done that at this point. For a playoff spot they would probably have to be one of the best teams. Yes, and it is possible—we've had that kind of run each of the last two seasons. The thing that would drive people bonkers, though, would be going something like 22-13 in the next six weeks, being within a hair of .500 on August 3, and then keeping our assets to go for it, then falling short. There would be severe recriminations in this forum all winter long. Not asking for or even wanting admissions by anyone here, but I assume it is forcing some fans to examine whether they want to see the Tigers continue to win at all, or whether they would rather have it decided nice and cleanly that we go into sell mode due to a poor record six weeks from today. I would not count myself among that contingent of fans, but I can accept that it is defensible. Quote
SoCalTiger Posted June 23 Posted June 23 9 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Which is the way it should be! Nothing better than playing hot heading into the post season. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 6 hours ago, chasfh said: I would not count myself among that contingent of fans, but I can accept that it is defensible. It's really so much a matter of perspective. From the stand point of getting to a typical division winning win total, the task just looks stupidly impossible not to plll the plug on - as your own research showed. Yet.......the fact is you don't need 95 or 90 or even 85 wins, you just need one more than anyone else in the division, and none of those teams look capable of running away and hiding - and making up 6 1/2 in half a season is really nothing. So there you are. Quote
oblong Posted June 23 Posted June 23 13 hours ago, chasfh said: Yes, and it is possible—we've had that kind of run each of the last two seasons. The thing that would drive people bonkers, though, would be going something like 22-13 in the next six weeks, being within a hair of .500 on August 3, and then keeping our assets to go for it, then falling short. There would be severe recriminations in this forum all winter long. Not asking for or even wanting admissions by anyone here, but I assume it is forcing some fans to examine whether they want to see the Tigers continue to win at all, or whether they would rather have it decided nice and cleanly that we go into sell mode due to a poor record six weeks from today. I would not count myself among that contingent of fans, but I can accept that it is defensible. Baseballequipment Always go for it. Nobody is running away with things in the AL. This team has proved that when healthy they can make the playoffs. Isn't that the whole point? Why bother being a fan if all you worry about is prospects and "3 years from now". That doesn't help me now. We're not doing financial planning. We're using a sports team as an outlet for the stresses of life. They don't give trophies for the best farm system. 4 1 Quote
Sports_Freak Posted June 23 Posted June 23 25 minutes ago, oblong said: Always go for it. Nobody is running away with things in the AL. This team has proved that when healthy they can make the playoffs. Isn't that the whole point? Why bother being a fan if all you worry about is prospects and "3 years from now". That doesn't help me now. We're not doing financial planning. We're using a sports team as an outlet for the stresses of life. They don't give trophies for the best farm system. Agreed. Its why I want Skubal extended. Give him his 10 years and hope for 3 to 5 years of Cy Young quality and 3 to 5 years as a solid #2 or #3 type stuff. I guarantee Chris could afford it if he wanted to. Spend some of the interest on those $$ billion(s). Quote
chasfh Posted June 23 Posted June 23 1 hour ago, oblong said: Always go for it. Nobody is running away with things in the AL. This team has proved that when healthy they can make the playoffs. Isn't that the whole point? Why bother being a fan if all you worry about is prospects and "3 years from now". That doesn't help me now. We're not doing financial planning. We're using a sports team as an outlet for the stresses of life. They don't give trophies for the best farm system. I do agree with this, although if we’re .450 on August 3, I might be resigned to moving the expiring contracts, provided we are open to paying them off to increase the return and/or getting someone who can help us sooner than later. Someone here mentioned the possibility of trading Melton for some theoretical kickass prospect, which strikes me as just beyond dumb. I mean, if we’re rooting for Harris to trade off players just starting out who are controllable into the 2030s for whatever it is Carol Merrill has behind the curtain, then what is it we’re really rooting for here? 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 2 hours ago, oblong said: Always go for it. Nobody is running away with things in the AL. Most ominous thing I've read is they expect Jose Ramirez back in 6 wks. How can their guy break his wrist and be out 6 wks and our guy break his wrist and be all but lost for the season. It ain't right I tell ya' Quote
gehringer_2 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 45 minutes ago, chasfh said: Someone here mentioned the possibility of trading Melton.. Moving some pitching for hitting to balance out the hitting lineup sounds good in theory, but not Melton. He is probably the ace of your staff next season, there is no-one he's going to return that as as valuable to the Tigers as he is. Quote
chasfh Posted June 23 Posted June 23 (edited) 30 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Moving some pitching for hitting to balance out the hitting lineup sounds good in theory, but not Melton. He is probably the ace of your staff next season, there is no-one he's going to return that as as valuable to the Tigers as he is. I would bet they did not achieve even this degree of discussion in the front office about trading Melton. It's such a non-starter, it probably didn't even escape anyone's inner thoughts. Melton is exactly the guy they would trade expiring contracts for. Edited June 23 by chasfh 1 Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 5 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Most ominous thing I've read is they expect Jose Ramirez back in 6 wks. How can their guy break his wrist and be out 6 wks and our guy break his wrist and be all but lost for the season. It ain't right I tell ya' Wasn’t it his hamate bone? Quote
gehringer_2 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 26 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: Wasn’t it his hamate bone? yes - which is probably why he can get back quickly. If the situation is right they just remove the broken fragment(s) and you live without them instead of having to wait for them to knit. Quote
NorthWoods Posted June 23 Posted June 23 31 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: yes - which is probably why he can get back quickly. If the situation is right they just remove the broken fragment(s) and you live without them instead of having to wait for them to knit. It'll probably loosen his swing and make him even more of a threat. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted June 23 Author Posted June 23 10 hours ago, oblong said: Always go for it. Nobody is running away with things in the AL. This team has proved that when healthy they can make the playoffs. Isn't that the whole point? Why bother being a fan if all you worry about is prospects and "3 years from now". That doesn't help me now. We're not doing financial planning. We're using a sports team as an outlet for the stresses of life. They don't give trophies for the best farm system. If we don't win this year, and we don't trade Skubal, it will set us back 5+ years. We have the chance to build around Clark, McGonigle and Dingler..... to not do it is malpractice. If we don't trade Skubal, we will be the Angels 2.0. Look how long they've been in purgatory and how long they will continue to be in purgatory. That team will suck for another 10 years because they didn't trade Ohtani. Biggest mistake in history of MLB. Harris will be fired and he should if the Tigers don't trade Skubal and they won't win the entire WS...... Quote
oblong Posted June 23 Posted June 23 You aren’t going to get anybody better in a trade than the comp pick or whatever it’s called. You will get a run of the mill player or two, and some A baller that that you already have 2 or 3 of. 1 Quote
Sports_Freak Posted June 23 Posted June 23 13 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: If we don't win this year, and we don't trade Skubal, it will set us back 5+ years. We have the chance to build around Clark, McGonigle and Dingler..... to not do it is malpractice. If we don't trade Skubal, we will be the Angels 2.0. Look how long they've been in purgatory and how long they will continue to be in purgatory. That team will suck for another 10 years because they didn't trade Ohtani. Biggest mistake in history of MLB. Harris will be fired and he should if the Tigers don't trade Skubal and they won't win the entire WS...... You underestimate how bad this team is without Skubal. We would be lucky to be a .500 team. Trading him as a 3 month rental isn't going to get you the haul you think. Quote
SoCalTiger Posted June 23 Posted June 23 17 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: If we don't win this year, and we don't trade Skubal, it will set us back 5+ years. We have the chance to build around Clark, McGonigle and Dingler..... to not do it is malpractice. If we don't trade Skubal, we will be the Angels 2.0. Look how long they've been in purgatory and how long they will continue to be in purgatory. That team will suck for another 10 years because they didn't trade Ohtani. Biggest mistake in history of MLB. Harris will be fired and he should if the Tigers don't trade Skubal and they won't win the entire WS...... I think your evaluation, though not without merit, it a bit assumptive. As Oblong points out we would still get a draft pick that is not worthless. Additionally it depends on who we trade for and if they indeed pan out. I do not think even Skubal will bring a "haul" but sure one definite core piece is very helpful but in of itself will not ensure staying out of purgatory or winning a Title. Walking on a possible summer of fun that pennant chase brings is a very high price to pay. Also any chance of keeping Tarik improves greatly with keeping him. Signing him is not out of the question. Quote
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