2025-2026 Tigers Off Season Thread

[4hzglory]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

Curtis had stayed in school for 3yrs, which would be unusual for today's top prospects,  who often come out in a year or two.

Most college players have to stay for 3 years per baseball’s draft rules.  

[gehringer_2]

18 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

And another thing with McGonigle, he has physical limitations that limit his ceiling.

that he's 'only' 5' 11"?

 

[romad1]

54 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

What are his physical limitations?

Similar to other ballplayers in that he is bound by gravity and the natural boundaries of the humanoid form.  Also, his need to breath and lack of sight in several light spectra.   

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Similar to other ballplayers in that he is bound by gravity and the natural boundaries of the humanoid form.  Also, his need to breath and lack of sight in several light spectra.   

He lacks the virility of Jim Adduci.  

[TigerNation]

1 hour ago, IdahoBert said:

What are his physical limitations?

He's short and not an explosive athlete. Not to say he doesn't have a high ceiling, he absolutely does. But the reason Griffin is ranked higher by some people is because of his physical tools providing a higher ceiling. McGonigle is not going to add a bunch of a value with his base running and fielding, and with his size he's not going to hit 35+ HRs. It's all just to say, for somebody who projects at 2B, and not much physical projection growth, for him to be as highly regarded of a prospect as he is, the bar is so much higher. The fact he so easily clears it removes any concern about him being anything besides a + player in the majors. It would be an absolute shocker if he's not a 3+ WAR player at least, he just doesn't have the absolute upside of somebody like a Witt jr.

[TigerNation]

1 hour ago, 4hzglory said:

He’s ranked the best overall hitting prospect since Vlad by BA with no weaknesses in any aspect of his hitting, including power.

Yeah, hence why he's as safe of a prospect as there is. My point is not that he has a low ceiling. Griffin is not ranked higher by anybody because of current performance, it's because he has more upside due to his physical tools. 

[TigerNation]

54 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

that he's 'only' 5' 11"?

 

Pretty much. If McGonigle projected as a plus defender at SS nobody would rank Griffin ahead of him. He's also not 5'11.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Pretty much. If McGonigle projected as a plus defender at SS nobody would rank Griffin ahead of him. He's also not 5'11.

well, there are plenty of guys in the HOF at less than 6' so his height should be the least of his problems.  

[Tenacious D]

If McGonigle demonstrates he can play SS to the team’s satisfaction in ST, he will make the team and be our starter. Look for the inevitable Trammell mentoring article from Cody and/or Evan. Javy will get plenty of time filling in at SS, 3B and CF.

Bench would be Jake Rogers, Javy, Zack McKinstry, Wenceel Perez and Matt Vierling?  Think Jahmai gets squeezed out.

Edited yesterday at 02:50 AM by Tenacious D

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well, there are plenty of guys in the HOF at less than 6' so his height should be the least of his problems.  

Joe Morgan was 5-7 and he may have been the best all around player I have ever seen.  

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Joe Morgan was 5-7 and he may have been the best all around player I have ever seen.  

and Jose Altuve has hit 30 hr twice at 5'6". There probably is no pro sport were physical tools are less connected to actual performance than baseball. I'm not saying they aren't connected, but that in baseball, other skills like ball path perception (i.e. fly ball judgement), anticipation, soft hands, and of course your perceptual hard wiring as a hitter, are all as important as, and unrelated to, raw athleticism.

Edited yesterday at 03:02 AM by gehringer_2

[TigerNation]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

well, there are plenty of guys in the HOF at less than 6' so his height should be the least of his problems.  

His height and athleticism are only problems in the context of his absolute ceiling, and that's in comparison to the players who reach 9-10+ WAR seasons.

He has first ballot HOF potential.

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

His height and athleticism are only problems in the context of his absolute ceiling, and that's in comparison to the players who reach 9-10+ WAR seasons.

He has first ballot HOF potential.

And you don't need to excel in every aspect of the game to be a great player. Would you draft Andrelton Simmons over Derek Jeter? I've never seen anyone play SS like Simmons when he 1st came up, but if I wanted to win ball games I'll take Jeter. Or long story short version: Great hitting trumps almost everything else.

Edited yesterday at 03:06 AM by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

23 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

If McGonigle demonstrates he can play SS to the team’s satisfaction in ST, he will make the team and be our starter. Look for the inevitable Trammell mentoring article

yeah - one critique I saw (on BA I think) was about his throwing footwork. That should be low hanging fruit for Dr. Trammell. 

Still, I want to see him prove he can hit MLB pitching. 

Edited yesterday at 03:13 AM by gehringer_2

[TigerNation]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

And you don't need to excel in every aspect of the game to be a great player. Would you draft Andrelton Simmons over Derek Jeter? I've never seen anyone play SS like Simmons when he 1st came up, but if I wanted to win ball games I'll take Jeter. Or long story short version: Great hitting trumps almost everything else.

No ****? Not relevant to anything I've said.

Prospect rankings are biased towards physical upside and raw tools. In order for somebody to be as highly regarded as McGonigle is while being 5'9 and not an explosive athlete, you have to be so insanely good at everything else.

It seems you think I said, or implied, he has anything other than a ridiculously high ceiling. I did not, he has an MVP level ceiling.

[IdahoBert]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

that he's 'only' 5' 11"?

 

So what you’re parodying in pre-analytic terms is that “he doesn’t look like a ball player.“ I can see that being a problem for some. 

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

No ****? Not relevant to anything I've said.

Prospect rankings are biased towards physical upside and raw tools. In order for somebody to be as highly regarded as McGonigle is while being 5'9 and not an explosive athlete, you have to be so insanely good at everything else.

It seems you think I said, or implied, he has anything other than a ridiculously high ceiling. I did not, he has an MVP level ceiling.

Not at all, just talking players in general.

The basic issue to me is that everything (for a position player) comes down to hitting, and to this day, projecting how guys are going to hit as they face progressively tougher pitching is the hardest thing to do, so it's natural that everything else which is easier to see tends to get a little more attention. There's no perfect MiLB metric for 'can you lay off Tarik Skubal's change down 0-2' until the guy gets himself into a position to have a chance to try to do it. 

Edited yesterday at 03:34 AM by gehringer_2

[IdahoBert]

When major league players make fun of McGonagle by calling him “shrimp“ or asking him “how’s the weather down there?” I hope he just doesn’t go back home and cry on his mother skirt. 

[TigerNation]

12 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

So what you’re parodying in pre-analytic terms is that “he doesn’t look like a ball player.“ I can see that being a problem for some. 

McGonigle is absolutely an old school throw back try hard middle infielder.

[TigerNation]

21 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Not at all, just talking players in general.

The basic issue to me is that everything (for a position player) comes down to hitting, and to this day, projecting how guys are going to hit as they face progressively tougher pitching is the hardest thing to do, so it's natural that everything else which is easier to see tends to get a little more attention because there's no good metric for 'can you hit Tarik Skubal's change' until the guy gets a chance to try to do it. 

There's a wide range of outcomes, but you can be very confident in the floor of performance for some things. Like there is no risk of McGonigle coming up and just having terrible plate discipline and regularly chasing sliders 8 inches off the plate. It's simply not a risk at all, he's not gonna K 22% of the time. You can pretty much be 100% confident than McGonigle will be greater than 70th percentile in contact rate and chase rate. Same goes for Max Clark.

Edited yesterday at 03:45 AM by TigerNation

[Stormin]

Another Bregman article in the Detroit Free Press today in an attempt to rile up fans. 

Some Baseball Savant comparisons:

Bregman:  18 HRs in 495 plate appearances, Batting Run Value 79 Percentile, Arm Strength 36 percentile, Fielding Run Value 72 percentile,  Base Running Value 15 percentile

Keith: 14 HRs in 468 plate appearances, Batting Run Value 53 Percentile, Arm Strength 31 percentile, Fielding Run Value 28 Percentile,  Base Running Value 89 Percentile

Bregman has benefited from playing home games in stadiums with a short left field porch tailored to his heavy pull swing.  In Comerica Park, Bregman's and Keith's 2025 HRs per plate appearance numbers would be similar.  Hopefully Keith can continue to gain back arm strength - before his injury Keith's arm strength was highly rated.   Keith takes a hit in  Fielding Run Value because of the number of games he played at DH in 2025 (There is a negative positional adjustment in the FRV calculation for games played at DH)

[papalawrence]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Joe Morgan was 5-7 and he may have been the best all around player I have ever seen.  

Morgan was mt Rushmore during the mid 70s. So fun to watch. I felt the same about Rickey Henderson 

[Edman85]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Curtis had stayed in school for 3yrs, which would be unusual for today's top prospects,  who often come out in a year or two.

??? First and second year college guys are not eligible for the draft ( unless they are 21)

[Tenacious D]

Unless any of the following apply to each of you, you’re not really in any position to critique the guys height as a projectable limitation:

-Professional scouting or analytics experience

-Observed a minimum of 50 McGonigle plate appearances 

-Own and regularly play Strat-a-Matic

-Currently live in your parents basement 

-Have recently enjoyed an extended stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

McGonigle will rake—if he does it while playing SS, he will be a superstar.

[Sports_Freak]

41 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Unless any of the following apply to each of you, you’re not really in any position to critique the guys height as a projectable limitation:

-Professional scouting or analytics experience

-Observed a minimum of 50 McGonigle plate appearances 

-Own and regularly play Strat-a-Matic

-Currently live in your parents basement 

-Have recently enjoyed an extended stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

McGonigle will rake—if he does it while playing SS, he will be a superstar.

I've only seen highlights where he crushes the ball but they do get me excited for the kid. But. IMO, he has to play no matter where he goes. I really don't see him coming north with us this spring unless he has an every day position. No way does he make this team as a once a week player. My wild guess is he starts in Toledo and gets called up in 2 cases...Javy struggles or gets hurt or Meadows struggles or gets hurt and is replaced in CF by Javy. I have a lot of confidence in the player development team that Harris has in place to make the proper decision.