2025-2026 Tigers Off Season Thread

[MichiganCardinal]

I was mostly ambivalent over the arbitration dispute, but I do wonder what its effects on the grander scheme of the CBA will be. I don't see how we don't lose at least one season of baseball at the rate we are going.

The infighting amongst owners will need to be settled before a new deal can even be negotiated. The Walter (LAD), Cohen (NYM), & Steinbrenner (NYY) coalition are probably pretty okay with the status quo. The Nutting (PIT), Castellini (CIN), and Monfort (COL) groups are going to be out for blood. And then a ton (including Ilitch) land somewhere in the middle, who won't want a season of lost revenue but also recognize the need for reform. Amongst the owners, the conversation probably starts with revenue sharing, which is a hot mess right now. You've got the New York, LA, and Chicago media markets that are doing just fine. And then Milwaukee, Tampa, and Cincinnati are making a tenth of that money, while many local TV deals are going sideways. All the while, the Dodgers benefit from a Chicago Parking Meter like deal with MLB. Revenue sharing is at 48% right now... where do you go from there?

Beyond revenue sharing, when push comes to shove at the table between owners and MLBPA, what are the owners even going to fight for? Presumably a salary cap, which if they are serious about, will probably cause an NHL 2004-2005 lockout in and of itself. Of course, that should probably be accompanied with a salary floor that will ruffle the feathers of the cheaper owners (see revenue sharing above). Now after Skubal, a lot of owners will want to see arbitration get an overhaul too. Will the entire rookie ball system of control need to get one too if high profile players aren't guaranteed a payday in year 7/8? Everything is a mess. It feels like by March 2027, there is a chance they'll have only torn down, and anything and everything will be on the table and up for grabs.

Speaking of the NHL, it is the most comparable professional sports league in terms of revenue/game (obviously only because MLB has nearly double the games). Yet, the highest paid player AAV in the entire NHL ($14MM) would be outside the top 90 highest players in MLB. Now, should the owners go to the table and say "we want to be more like the NHL"? Obviously not. But, I do think they have a point that higher profile players in their league are paid significantly more commensurately than the other professional leagues.

It's all just messy and I don't see any easy path forward for anybody.

[Stormin]

Tigers Luxury Tax Payroll estimates

spotrac: $229,259,852   https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/detroit-tigers/tax

fangraphs: $244,086,251  https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/tigers

COTS: $233,614,050 https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/detroit-tigers/

[Edman85]

45 minutes ago, Stormin said:

Tigers Luxury Tax Payroll estimates

spotrac: $229,259,852   https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/detroit-tigers/tax

fangraphs: $244,086,251  https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/tigers

COTS: $233,614,050 https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/detroit-tigers/

 

My calcs...

Player	CBT Total
Framber Valdez	$38,333,333.33
Tarik Skubal	$32,000,000.00
Javier Baez	$23,333,333.33
Gleyber Torres	$22,025,000.00
Jack Flaherty	$17,500,000.00
Kenley Jansen	$11,000,000.00
Kyle Finnegan	$9,500,000.00
Drew Anderson	$7,000,000.00
Casey Mize	$6,150,000.00
Riley Greene	$5,000,000.00
Colt Keith	$4,773,750.00
Zach McKinstry	$4,200,000.00
Spencer Torkelson	$4,075,000.00
Will Vest	$3,950,000.00
Kerry Carpenter	$3,275,000.00
Matt Vierling	$3,255,000.00
Jake Rogers	$3,050,000.00
Tyler Holton	$1,575,000.00
Beau Brieske	$1,157,000.00
Reese Olson	$800,000.00
Parker Meadows	$800,000.00
Wenceel Perez	$800,000.00
Dillon Dingler	$800,000.00
Jahmai Jones	$800,000.00
Brant Hurter	$790,000.00
Brenan Hanifee	$790,000.00
Jackson Jobe	$785,000.00
Ty Madden	$380,700.00
Sawyer Gipson-Long	$372,053.00
Trey Sweeney	$359,243.00
Keider Montero	$238,347.00
Bailey Horn	$150,084.00
Troy Melton	$149,447.00
Jace Jung	$127,100.00
Drew Sommers	$127,100.00
Dylan Smith	$127,100.00
Hao Yu Lee	$63,600.00
Thayron Liranzo	$63,600.00
Jake Miller	$63,600.00
Eduardo Valencia	$63,600.00
Trei Cruz	$63,600.00
Justyn-Henry Malloy	-$100,000.00
Eduardo Rodriguez	-$933,333.33
Tomas Nido
Burch Smith
Tanner Rainey
Phil Bickford
Enmanuel De Jesus
Bryan Sammons
Troy Watson
Scott Effross
Ricky Vanasco
Corey Julks
Jack Little
Tyler Mattison
Bligh Madris
Tyler Owens
Sean Guenther
Dugan Darnell
Matt Seelinger
	$208,833,257.33
Pre-Arb Bonus Pool	$1,666,666.67
Player Benefits	$18,000,000.00
CBT Payroll	$228,499,924.00
CBT Threshold	$244,000,000.00
CBT Room	$15,500,076.00

[TJ Rollercoaster]

9 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

"Kyle Tucker is not much better than Bobby Higginson" is not something I expected to read this morning.  

How do Tucker's August RBI's compare vs. Higginson's?

(referencing an ancient discussion from around these parts)

[casimir]

In some order, the rotation is Skubal. Valdez, Flaherty, Mize, Olson.  Other candidates are Anderson, Melton, Montero, Gipson-Long, with maybe Anderson as a long RP and Melton, Montero, Gipson-Long stashed in Toledo.

I’ll be honest, I still want to add Bassitt.  There is no such thing as enough pitching.  If everyone is healthy, great.  Play the minor league options game, or trade for a position of need, or maybe move a P for a younger P with more minor league options, or trade for another LHRP.

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

"Kyle Tucker is not much better than Bobby Higginson" is not something I expected to read this morning.  

Unexpected yet unsurprising.

[Edman85]

Hao-Yu Lee on Team Taiwan (I refuse to call it Chinese Taipei) in the WBC.

[Tiger337]

22 minutes ago, casimir said:

Unexpected yet unsurprising.

It's funny.  Higginson is underrated because he was the best player on some horrible teams.  Tucker may be overrated, but still substantially better than Higginson.  

[casimir]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's funny.  Higginson is underrated because he was the best player on some horrible teams.  Tucker may be overrated, but still substantially better than Higginson.  

Higginson had a very solid overall career, so not trying to slight him at all.  But definitely not as good as Tucker’s career to date.

One thing that elevates Tucker over Higginson is his year to year consistency.  Higginson started out well, but was up and down around late 20s, early 30s.  Tucker started out a little slower, but has rattled off 5 very good seasons in a row.  Higginson doesn’t have that on his baseball card.

[Edman85]

Rosters still rolling out, but this is what I've got from the Tigers system so far:

Tiger	Team
Carlos Lequerica	Israel
Kenley Jansen	Netherlands
Duque Hebbert	Nicaragua
Hao-Yu Lee	Taiwan
Tarik Skubal	USA
George Lombard	USA (Coach)
Keider Montero	Venezuela
Enmanuel De Jesus	Venezuela
Gleyber Torres	Venezuela

[Screwball]

I got a ball from Tiger stadium in the lower deck in right field off Higgy. I had it in my trophy case until my boys ran out of baseballs.

[Tenacious D]

Higgy had to have been juicing.  As soon as they started to crack down, his output dropped.

Also interesting that he has not appeared anywhere. 

[romad1]

7 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Higgy had to have been juicing.  As soon as they started to crack down, his output dropped.

Also interesting that he has not appeared anywhere. 

His total drop off is an odd story for sure.  Has anyone seen him at any Tigers related alumni events? 

[Motor City Sonics]

When is this team going to do something?      

Valdez was 2 days ago.

What else you got? 

[Tiger337]

Rare photo of the Adduci Family as the legendary Jim Jr gets his high school number retired.  Credit his mom for getting his dad out of bed that morning to show up for this event.  

[Motor City Sonics]

12 hours ago, casimir said:

Unexpected yet unsurprising.

Look at the numbers.    He's not much better.      

Tucker's better, but is he that much better?  

 

I can't explain Higginson's very sudden drop off,  I think he had a back injury and he didn't mesh with Leyland.   Higginson was just gone very quickly and seems to have gone into the Witness Relocation Program since retiring.    

 

But if Tucker's a $60 million dollar guy, then Higginson's $45 - $50 million guy in todays game.  And nobody believes that.        Those age 27, 29 and 30 year old years were pretty good for Higginson - and on MEDIOCRE TO HORRIBLE teams.   You put him in that Astros lineup and he's probably got numbers very close to Tucker's.    That one year that Higginson batted ahead of Juan Gonzalez - those were great numbers.   Tucker had that kind of support his whole career.   

 

It's just a stupid contract and it hurts baseball.  It hurts everyone but the Dodgers, Mets and probably the Yankees if they ever decide to spend stupidly again.    And it hurts the fans because it's going to lead to a battle over a Salary Cap that is going to get nasty and going to cost us a full season next year.         I actually would like to see every team have a shot to win at some point.    I know if you draft right and always keep your minor league cupboard stocked that you can be competitive, but thinking about the whole thing with someone like  Skubal or Skenes.   It's only a matter of time  until they become Dodgers, Mets or Yankees and it sucks.    Pittsburgh Pirates fans finally get a star to root for and they know he's already gone.   They'd better hope that Bubba Chandler, Konnor Griffin and O'Neill Cruz all have great 2026/2027* seasons because it'll be over after that. 

*if there's a season

 

 

 

 

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Look at the numbers.    He's not much better.      

Tucker's better, but is he that much better?  

 

I can't explain Higginson's very sudden drop off,  I think he had a back injury and he didn't mesh with Leyland.   Higginson was just gone very quickly and seems to have gone into the Witness Relocation Program since retiring.    

 

But if Tucker's a $60 million dollar guy, then Higginson's $45 - $50 million guy in todays game.  And nobody believes that.        Those age 27, 29 and 30 year old years were pretty good for Higginson - and on MEDIOCRE TO HORRIBLE teams.   You put him in that Astros lineup and he's probably got numbers very close to Tucker's.    That one year that Higginson batted ahead of Juan Gonzalez - those were great numbers.   Tucker had that kind of support his whole career.   

 

It's just a stupid contract and it hurts baseball.  It hurts everyone but the Dodgers, Mets and probably the Yankees if they ever decide to spend stupidly again.    And it hurts the fans because it's going to lead to a battle over a Salary Cap that is going to get nasty and going to cost us a full season next year.         I actually would like to see every team have a shot to win at some point.    I know if you draft right and always keep your minor league cupboard stocked that you can be competitive, but thinking about the whole thing with someone like  Skubal or Skenes.   It's only a matter of time  until they become Dodgers, Mets or Yankees and it sucks.    Pittsburgh Pirates fans finally get a star to root for and they know he's already gone.   They'd better hope that Bubba Chandler, Konnor Griffin and O'Neill Cruz all have great 2026/2027* seasons because it'll be over after that. 

*if there's a season

 

 

 

 

Through age 28:

Tucker 140 OPS+, +36 fielding runs  

Higginson 116 OPS+ -22 fielding runs

At this point in his career, Tucker is a far better hitter and fielder and both are coner outfielders. 

I don't understand why you are getting so upset about Tucker's contract.  He got a short contract with a high annual salary.  It's not going to destroy the game.  

[Motor City Sonics]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Through age 28:

Tucker 140 OPS+, +36 fielding runs  

Higginson 116 OPS+ -22 fielding runs

At this point in his career, Tucker is a far better hitter and fielder and both are coner outfielders. 

I don't understand why you are getting so upset about Tucker's contract.  He got a short contract with a high annual salary.  It's not going to destroy the game.  

I'm upset because if he's getting that kind of money, then what does any other star player want?   More than Tucker.   What are Skubal and Skenes going to want 70 million?  80 million?    That contract is so radically out of whack that it's going to make it next to impossible for teams to retain the star players they developed.    It was already difficult, but now it's next to impossible.   There needs to be at least the appearance that most teams have a shot to really compete most years.  Just the appearance.    This does the absolute opposite.        

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I'm upset because if he's getting that kind of money, then what does any other star player want?   More than Tucker.   What are Skubal and Skenes going to want 70 million?  80 million?    That contract is so radically out of whack that it's going to make it next to impossible for teams to retain the star players they developed.    It was already difficult, but now it's next to impossible.   There needs to be at least the appearance that most teams have a shot to really compete most years.  Just the appearance.    This does the absolute opposite.        

I think the short contracts are good for the game.  It gives a smaller market team a chance to go all in wuithout getting stuck with a contract for 10 years.  Like the Tigers and Valdez.  

[romad1]

Did I already start a Carlos Monnarez appreciation thread?   Its sort of evergreen for all Detroit Sports.  

elements of a classic CM article. 

• take the most recent sporting event by a team,  extrapolate a ridiculous subsequent prediction
• show no appreciation for actual Detroit sports history because he grew up as a Dodger fan
• Shoot hot takes like the love child of Stephen A Smith and Tony Kornheiser

So, he's saying the Tigers have been humbled by the arb ruling in favor of Skubal.  Ok, well.  Sure. 

[Cruzer1]

58 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Rare photo of the Adduci Family as the legendary Jim Jr gets his high school number retired.  Credit his mom for getting his dad out of bed that morning to show up for this event.  

Where's Zimm? Lol

[Motor City Sonics]

I am not saying Higginson was AS good or BETTER than Tucker,   just that Tucker isn't all that much better than Bobby

- Tucker was surrounded by All Stars

- Higgy was surrounded by failed Padres and Astros prospects that Randy Smith had to give one more shot - and when he did finally get a couple of decent players to hit around (Juan Gone and Dmitri), he showed some very solid numbers.  

 -Tucker played in a hitter-friendly park

- Higginson played in a canyon

 

If you put them on equal ground, they're probably a lot closer than you think.   But no, Higginson was not better.  I never said that.  And he certainly wouldn't be worth 40 million a year, but if he had a .300/30/102 season in 2025 - some stupid team would probably do it.    The Mets would.    They'll be gagging on 42 million with Bichette.   Good player, but that number is insane and it won't move the needle in New York.    

 

Higgy had a bad ending here.   He'd gotten soured by all the losing.   I remember one instance where fans accused him of "Cadillacing" it after a ball in the gap.  He jogged after it.  Even in a lost season, it's a bad look.  But he made the mistake of griping about it to the media and that pissed off the fans.   So I think people forget about some pretty good seasons.   You guys remember the dimensions of Comerica Park in those first few years.    You take that year he had in 2000 and put him in Houston's ballpark and he might have hit close to 35-40 HRs.    He had a 12/18  home/away split.   Why?  Comerica Park was a canyon.     Any other home park and 12 home runs is probably 16 or 17.    After 2001 they started losing players and had laughable lineups until 2004, but he was spent by then.  

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Motor City Sonics

[oblong]

He parlayed that year where he "hit .300, 30 HR's, and drove in 100" into a big deal.  If he hit .299, 29 HR, and had 99 RBI, would Randy have given it out?  Press likes nice round numbers.  Learned that in The Right Stuff when Scott Crossfield hit Mach 2.

 

 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

So I am very pleased with the Framber Valdez signing. Bringing in another lefty like Valdez to be a solid, legit #2 behind Tarik Skubal, is a real anchor for this starting rotation. I now feel we have the potential to have one of the 3 or 4 best rotations in all of baseball and maybe the best or second best in the AL. This was the kind of big acquisition we were all collectively waiting for I think. I certainly know I felt major disappointment and completely underwhelmed with our offseason up to this point. So kudos to Scott Harris, Chris Ilitch, and anyone in the organization who helped get this move done.

Just a few of questions to ask out of my own general curiosity though. Had you asked most fans, and many in the media, what position they wanted the Tigers to make a big move at or upgrade at, I think the answer would have likely been a bat/positional player. 3B, CF, DH, somewhere along those lines. Why do you think the organization kept its powder largely dry this offseason, until this point and didn't make a major acquisition? Was it simply they were waiting for a result on the Skubal arbitration? Also, why did they chose to sign a starter in Valdez versus bringing in a bat/positional player like a Pete Bichette, Bregman, Suarez, etc.?

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, TJ Rollercoaster said:

How do Tucker's August RBI's compare vs. Higginson's?

(referencing an ancient discussion from around these parts)

Never mind that, what about his OE%?