1984Echoes Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, oblong said: Skubal will not sign a contract before becoming a FA... Boras has signed contract extensions before a FA season has started. Partial list: History of Scott Boras contract extensions with walk years looming for Juan Soto, Jose Altuve, more - CBS Sports Carlos Gonzalez Elvis Andrus Steven Strasburg Jose Altuve Xander Bogaerts Weren't there a couple Tigers who had Boras as their agent where they signed extensions? If someone meets Skubal/Boras's contract demands, they'll sign an extension. Edited October 13 by 1984Echoes Quote
Shelton Posted October 13 Posted October 13 14 minutes ago, Edman85 said: There's no sign-and-trades in MLB. The team with the player has exclusive negotiating rights until five days after the World Series of the final year of their contract ends. There might be the occasional trade where there is a window the receiving team can work out a deal. I feel like that happened with Mookie Betts; it may have with Giancarlo Stanton. It happened with the tigers and Sheffield, too. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted October 13 Posted October 13 15 minutes ago, Edman85 said: There's no sign-and-trades in MLB. The team with the player has exclusive negotiating rights until five days after the World Series of the final year of their contract ends. There might be the occasional trade where there is a window the receiving team can work out a deal. I feel like that happened with Mookie Betts; it may have with Giancarlo Stanton. was the Cabrera deal done virtually when he arrived? I guess I'd wouldn't mind seeing MLB add 'Sign and Trade' as an allowed option. I think it would give teams losing players better return on their loses and thus would be a parity help and I don't see that the union should complain - I don't think it would make deals any smaller. Plus you know there has to be back door stuff going on under the table anyway - you can't break human nature. 1 Quote
Toddwert Posted October 13 Posted October 13 11 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: I thought everyone knew the Tigers had an offer out to Bregman. He signed with Boston. Either Harris was given a chance to match Bostons offer or Boras just used the Tigers offer to get a better deal. Thus...Harris was either played or he was the victim of a very unethical agent. Either way, he should have given Boras a deadline to accept so he could move on to finding another 3rd baseman. But I get it, some people are happy with Harris. I'm just looking at it without rose colored glasses. Harris is flawed. im sure they defended Al too.. Quote
Tiger337 Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 35 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I don't think this is necessarily true. Austin Jackson was 5 WAR player for the Tigers in 2010, he probably wasn't going to play for the 96 win Yankee team that year. As always, it's a matter of choosing wisely! the same might be true for Aiden Miller since the Phillies have Trea Turner in place. While I agree that competitive playoff teams are least likely to want to part with current productive players, they are also the most likely to have blocked MLB ready players. Granderson and Jackson were not rentals. That trade was not made because Dombrowski needed to get something for Granderson/Jackson before they walked. It was made because, in part, because Dombrowski liked Scherzer and Jackson (I think especially Scherzer at the time the trade was made) better than Granderson and Jackson. 1 Quote
oblong Posted October 13 Posted October 13 5 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Boras has signed contract extensions before a FA season has started. Partial list: History of Scott Boras contract extensions with walk years looming for Juan Soto, Jose Altuve, more - CBS Sports Carlos Gonzalez Elvis Andrus Steven Strasburg Jose Altuve Xander Bogaerts Weren't there a couple Tigers who had Boras as their agent where they signed extensions? If someone meets Skubal/Boras's contract demands, they'll sign an extension. Boras works for Skubal. doesn't matter what those other players did. Tarik has all but said he's going to FA. He's the best pitcher in baseball and has the chance to set a new standard for the SP market. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Granderson and Jackson were not rentals. That trade was not made because Dombrowski needed to get something for Granderson/Jackson before they walked. It was made because, in part, because Dombrowski liked Scherzer and Jackson (I think especially Scherzer at the time the trade was made) better than Granderson and Jackson. I'm not sure what your point is - do you mean that a year of Skubal isn't worth a top AAA player? That's certainly debatable but not really what I was arguing. If we posit that Skubal could/should bring good value back but that that value won't be in the form of current MLB players because the teams would sign Skubal are not in a mode they will give up current players but that they are willing to give up value - then my argument is that that value can still help the receiving team in the very next year. If you are arguing Skubal does not have that much value - OK, but that's a different angle on the argument than I was going for. Edited October 13 by gehringer_2 Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted October 13 Posted October 13 30 minutes ago, Edman85 said: There's no sign-and-trades in MLB. The team with the player has exclusive negotiating rights until five days after the World Series of the final year of their contract ends. There might be the occasional trade where there is a window the receiving team can work out a deal. I feel like that happened with Mookie Betts; it may have with Giancarlo Stanton. Happened last year with Arrenado....... Quote
Jimbo Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Skubal and Boras are also not dumb. If they can get a contract this year that is close to what they would get when he becomes a FA, he would have to be stupid to not take that contract. With pitchers (and really any position) anything can happen in a year of play. Now where he plays could factor into that. Although if he can pick now which team and get the contract he wants, it wouldn't make sense to wait. If he has a contract demand that the Tigers are not willing to pay they could also have him list the teams he would be willing to play for with that contract and then basically a sign and trade could happen. I would love to know if he just wants a certain contract or if the Tigers contract is more than say a team that he would prefer to play for (if that is even the case). Or is it just this amount regardless who he plays for. A larger market team could be willing to give up players in a trade to have him guaranteed for next year even if they could get him as a FA the following year. 27 minutes ago, oblong said: Boras works for Skubal. doesn't matter what those other players did. Tarik has all but said he's going to FA. He's the best pitcher in baseball and has the chance to set a new standard for the SP market. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted October 13 Posted October 13 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jimbo said: Skubal and Boras are also not dumb. If they can get a contract this year that is close to what they would get when he becomes a FA, he would have to be stupid to not take that contract. I think this is correct. At the core, they are interested in the benchmark, not how it's achieved. But that still means they want a whole lotta green. 🤑 Edited October 13 by gehringer_2 1 Quote
1984Echoes Posted October 13 Posted October 13 46 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: was the Cabrera deal done virtually when he arrived? I guess I wouldn't mind seeing MLB add 'Sign and Trade' as an allowed option. I think it would give teams losing players better return on their loses and thus would be a parity help and I don't see that the union should complain - I don't think it would make deals any smaller. Plus you know there has to be back door stuff going on under the table anyway - you can't break human nature. I approve this idea!!! Quote
oblong Posted October 13 Posted October 13 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think this is correct. At the core, they are interested in the benchmark, not how it's achieved. But that still means they want a whole lotta green. 🤑 but what's the benchmark? He sets it. And you don't know what it is until you have the Tigers and Yankees and Dodgers and Mets and whoever else bidding for him against each other. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted October 13 Posted October 13 1 minute ago, oblong said: but what's the benchmark? He sets it. And you don't know what it is until you have the Tigers and Yankees and Dodgers and Mets and whoever else bidding for him against each other. I think "Biggest pitcher deal ever signed' has some ability to stand by itself even in the absence of other bidding, but your point is taken. Quote
1984Echoes Posted October 13 Posted October 13 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think this is correct. They are interested in the benchmark, not how it's achieved. But that still means they want a whole lotta green. 🤑 I agree with this take. 47 minutes ago, oblong said: Boras works for Skubal. doesn't matter what those other players did. Tarik has all but said he's going to FA. He's the best pitcher in baseball and has the chance to set a new standard for the SP market. I don't want to disagree with what you are saying here... It very well could be 100% true. But I don't think it's as "locked into stone" as you are making it out to be. He might be very, very set on hitting the open market. But 2027 season also is, realistically... in some danger. He's not stupid. I agree with G2. If Boras/Skubal can set the market, this offseason... if they discuss the logic/ costs/ danger to 2027 season/ benefits/ etc... I don't think Skubal will be close minded about getting the deal done. Say it's 70% Skubal has it in his mind to do exactly what you are saying. I don't think it's 100%. I think the other 30% is Skubal and Boras saying... "well, IF ..." Quote
1984Echoes Posted October 13 Posted October 13 56 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: ... I wouldn't mind seeing MLB add 'Sign and Trade' as an allowed option. I think it would give teams losing players better return on their loses and ... Let me restate my position. I think this should ABSOLUTELY be done. Talk about helping out the small market teams that are constantly losing their players in FA to the Yankees/ Mets and Dodgers of the world...!!! Quote
Jimbo Posted October 13 Posted October 13 I was looking at highest paid pitchers. Obvoiusly Ohtani is highest but he's not even getting paid mainly for pitching so really he doesn't count. Wheeler is next at 42 mil although it was only for 3 seasons and he actually stated he wants to retire after 2027 season. Philly is definitely a very good possible trading partner because Wheeler's salary comes off the books after the 2027 season. No pitchers (excluding Ohtani) are getting a 10 year contract. Would the large market teams actually be willing to give him that many years? Salaries with sports are out of control so if I were to bet I would think someone would offer it. Quote
4hzglory Posted October 13 Posted October 13 1 hour ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: Happened last year with Arrenado....... Arrenado had a no trade clause - he was using that to veto trades. Quote
Jimbo Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Another thing to consider is there could be a work stoppage in 2027. If your Boras and Skubal, maybe taking a contract this offseason wouldn't be the worst idea 1 Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted October 13 Posted October 13 3 hours ago, holygoat said: No one here knows the answer to that question. I think the majority here is in the camp that that would prefer if the Tigers can sign Skubal long term during the off season. The disagreement is in what the team should do in the event that they can't. By the way, I disagree with this. The chances of Skubal being 80% of the pitcher he is (without injury) 3 years from now is astronomical. I don't want to pay $40 (more likely 45) million plus for a #3 or #4 starter if he's healthy after 3 years for antoher 7 years. Thats the problem I have. If he was 4 or 5 years younger, yes, I'd pay him $500mil over 10. But he isn't.... get rid of him an buy. Quote
tiger2022 Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Skubal is making the decisions. Boras isn't calling the shots. This isn't like colonel Parker and Elvis. Skubal has a good idea of where he would like to play and that is where he will end up or he has a list of places and will select based on the offers Quote
romad1 Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Baseball has definitely developed problems with the lack of balance between markets. The NFL may hate the Lions and love the Chiefs but they all get the same salary levels. 1 Quote
1984Echoes Posted October 13 Posted October 13 24 minutes ago, romad1 said: Baseball has definitely developed problems with the lack of balance between markets. The NFL may hate the Lions and love the Chiefs but they all get the same salary levels. I don't think allowing "sign and trade" fixes that... But if it helps the smaller market teams gain bigger trade packages for all the guys they end up losing... I am definitely for it. It might not balance out the money... but it might help balance out the talent... Quote
Jimbo Posted October 13 Posted October 13 So can the Tigers discuss with other teams Skubal's contract demands during trade discussions and what he would take from each team? Not even sure the Tigers, Boras, and Skubal have these type of discussions but I would hope they would. I would have zero issues with the Tigers giving him a 40mil for 6 years (maybe 7) but the talk of giving a pitcher 10 years at his age is crazy. Although if you compared him to Verlander, it would be value for 10 years. Verlander was a dominant pitcher until he was 36. Even after that he was a starter. Obviously he was the exception. Again, I don't care what Illitch has to pay him, its not my money. Although if it means the Tigers are handcuffed every year because of this contract than I would rather them trade him. I just look at the Tigers trading or letting go all those Dumbrowski players and it scares me to give up such a talent. It would suck to see him go on and win multiple championships. Quote
IdahoBert Posted October 13 Posted October 13 DETROIT -- The Tigers have extended the contract of manager A.J. Hinch, president of baseball operations Scott Harris confirmed Monday at their season-ending press conference. Terms were not disclosed. “We extended A.J. earlier in the year,” Harris said. “I absolutely love working with A.J. I think he’s one of the best managers in the game. We have now proactively extended him twice because we want him to be here as long as he’s willing to be here, and I want to work with him as long as I can possibly work with him. It was one of the easier conversations I’ve had, because … he wants to be here too, and I think we’re both bullish on our future in this organization, and we’re both proud of what we’ve done in the three years together.” per mlb.com 1 Quote
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