Hongbit Posted June 21 Posted June 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, NorthWoods said: I'm all for a big move, just not a cripplingly stupid move. I know there's an argument I'm wrong but I don't see Herro as much of an upgrade over Robinson and he's injury prone. For that we give up valuable assets and wreck our cap situation? No thanks. That assumes they resign Herro right after the trade. What if it was a one year shot and then have many options next summer? As for assets, they really only have two in Cade and Ausar that they for sure want to keep long term. I don’t necessarily care if they move anyone else. Edited June 21 by Hongbit Quote
Deleterious Posted June 21 Author Posted June 21 You don't give up two (Stew is worth a first alone) first round picks for a one-year shot. Maybe if you are like OKC and have first round picks falling out of your pockets. The Pistons are not in that situation. Or maybe a team like SA who is on the cusp of a title and needs a player to just put them over the top. Herro is not that. Free agency is dead in the NBA. Teams no longer want cap space for the free agent period. Last year I think 3 teams had space and this year two will have it. It's almost impossible to sign a restricted free agent with how things are currently structured. Then the good unrestricted free agents usually sign extensions with their team before they even hit the free agent market. My guess is Detroit has or will ask Miami to give them permission to start negotiating with Herro before the trade happens. As far as what he will get for an extension? I'm probably biased since I don't want him on the team anyway. But in June 2025 Bobby Marks predicted a 3/$150 million extension for Herro in Miami. Obviously that never materialized. But on July 1st he becomes eligible for a 4/$207 million extension. NBA offseason 2025: SGA, Jokic, Luka among top extension candidates Quote What to expect: Guaranteed money once again wins out and Herro signs a three-year, $149.7 million extension. Quote
NorthWoods Posted June 21 Posted June 21 1 hour ago, Hongbit said: That assumes they resign Herro right after the trade. What if it was a one year shot and then have many options next summer? As for assets, they really only have two in Cade and Ausar that they for sure want to keep long term. I don’t necessarily care if they move anyone else. I guess I assumed they would sign him to a deal as Sankofa stated they would "need" to after giving up those assets for him. Trading Stew and a 1st for 1 year of Herro to me makes the deal even worse. Quote
buddha Posted June 21 Posted June 21 i'd rather just keep stew. that's the best we can do? tyler herro? 1 Quote
Betrayer Posted June 21 Posted June 21 16 hours ago, NYLion said: Where are you getting a guy that is a 20+ ppg scorer and a high end defender? Those guys just aren't available. All these guys mentioned that might be available, Markannen, MPJ, Murphy, Herro etc. All these guys have defensive decencies even though they can shoot. Murphy might have more length but he's not a good defender. Maybe it could improve here in a different system but he's not currently and he would cost a crapload of assets more than Herro. Are you willing to give up the equivalent of 4 1sts for Murphy? That's what your likely giving up to pry him from New Orleans whereas Herro would likely only cost one of those assets. My point is that there is no perfect solution here. Herro wouldn't be my #1 option by any means but he could help. I've seen this guy play, he's a bucket. He can go hot and cold but that's the case with a lot of these guys that aren't franchise players. He might very well get hunted defensively so yes that's a problem but you just hope that he produces enough offense to make up for that whereas Robinson just wasn't good enough offensively to do so. I'm not looking for a 20+ ppg scorer that's also a high end defender. That's an All-NBA player. Look back at what I said. I just want 3 and D players. Then you can add a sparkplug score-only guard pretty easily for a low number of assets. Guys like White and Sexton aren't expensive and they'll give you 80% of Herro without the 50M dollar salary. As others have said, Herro is injury prone and doesn't compete in the playoffs. And when he's not scoring, he gives you nothing other than a target for the opponent to score on. In that case, I'd rather keep Robinson. I certainly don't want to give up assets for him. We're doing them a favor to facilitate the Giannis deal and take a bad contract. They should be paying us for this. As for comparing Murphy's defense to Herro's, let's be real here. One guy gets the tough assignments every night on a bad team with no support. He's long, tall and athletic. The other guy has the opposite physical traits, gets hidden on the opponents worst offensive player every night, and still can't get out of his own team's way on defense. There's really no comparison. Would I give up the equivalent of 4 1sts for Murphy. In a heartbeat. We're talking about 2 of Stew, Holland, and Sasser and two future firsts that will be in the late 20s. Well worth it. Quote
casimir Posted June 21 Posted June 21 4 hours ago, buddha said: i'd rather just keep stew. that's the best we can do? tyler herro? Or trade him for a better return. Would Reed have much trade value given his lower salary? Could he bring back a similar value wing with a better balanced game than Herro? Quote
NYLion Posted June 22 Posted June 22 5 hours ago, Betrayer said: I'm not looking for a 20+ ppg scorer that's also a high end defender. That's an All-NBA player. Look back at what I said. I just want 3 and D players. Then you can add a sparkplug score-only guard pretty easily for a low number of assets. Guys like White and Sexton aren't expensive and they'll give you 80% of Herro without the 50M dollar salary. As others have said, Herro is injury prone and doesn't compete in the playoffs. And when he's not scoring, he gives you nothing other than a target for the opponent to score on. In that case, I'd rather keep Robinson. I certainly don't want to give up assets for him. We're doing them a favor to facilitate the Giannis deal and take a bad contract. They should be paying us for this. As for comparing Murphy's defense to Herro's, let's be real here. One guy gets the tough assignments every night on a bad team with no support. He's long, tall and athletic. The other guy has the opposite physical traits, gets hidden on the opponents worst offensive player every night, and still can't get out of his own team's way on defense. There's really no comparison. Would I give up the equivalent of 4 1sts for Murphy. In a heartbeat. We're talking about 2 of Stew, Holland, and Sasser and two future firsts that will be in the late 20s. Well worth it. Herro comes with his red flags of which I've acknowledged, and I certainly wouldn't pay the price that's been rumored but I think you guys are underrating what impact a scorer and improved playmaker like him would make alongside Cade. I think he's a guy that would help even with the defensive deficiencies and give the Pistons a dynamic that they don't have currently. If I had the choice of paying the equivalent of two 1sts (that's been rumored for Herro) or 4 1sts for Murphy, I'd choose the latter but I'm also saying that Murphy has his flaws as well. He's not much of a playmaker, he's not really the 3 and D guy you're seeking and he's more of a SF than PF so I question the fit alongside Ausar but his contract is a huge selling point and he's probably the best two way player of the rumored group of guys the Pistons were in on although that's not saying much. Quote
buddha Posted June 22 Posted June 22 if tyler herro is the best you can do, then run it back, keep the pick, keep stew, and see if something else comes available. i'd rather sign lavine on a buyout than overpay herro. Quote
Deleterious Posted June 22 Author Posted June 22 I would be trying to move Stewart to Boston for Pritchard or San Antonio for Champagnie. Pritchard isn't very good on defense. But he can shoot and run the team when Cade is off the floor, or next to Cade in end of game situations if they need a second ball handler. He has two years left on his contract at about $8 million per. Champagnie was hunted a bit in the OKC and NYK series. But he wasn't a turnstile in those situations. SGA and Brunson got their points, but neither one was very efficient. Of course, it's easier to play defense with Wemby standing behind you. And he was hunted because you are not going after Vassell, Castle, or Wemby. You pretty much have to pick on Fox or Champagnie. He has 1 year left at $3 million. My guess a new deal for him looks like 4/$60 million on the low end. 4/$80 million on the high end. Quote
Deleterious Posted June 22 Author Posted June 22 Example of why it's so important to stay out of the luxury tax. It's not like Wiggins made $40 million a year. He was set to make $9 million next year, and it saved them over $60 million in luxury tax payments to cut $9 million in salary. Quote
Mr.TaterSalad Posted June 22 Posted June 22 Does this mean we can get Jaylen Brown in a 3-team deal? Quote
casimir Posted June 22 Posted June 22 5 minutes ago, buddha said: how do we get jaylen brown out of that scenario? Alternative universe. 1 Quote
Deleterious Posted June 22 Author Posted June 22 I think it would be hard to beat Portland in a bidding war. Milwaukee is going to be bad for the next 3-5 years. Portland controls all of Milwaukee 1st round picks until 2031 because of the Lillard trade. The chance for Milwaukee to get them back in a Brown trade is a pretty big deal. You're probably looking at 3-4 top 10 picks going to Milwaukee. Hard to beat that. Quote
Deleterious Posted June 22 Author Posted June 22 (edited) He now has three options. Sign a new contract with Detroit Sign an offer sheet with another team Sign the 1-year qualifying offer with Detroit and become an unrestricted free agent next summer. I believe his qualifying offer amount is just under $10 million. Edited June 22 by Deleterious Quote
NorthWoods Posted June 22 Posted June 22 3 hours ago, Deleterious said: Example of why it's so important to stay out of the luxury tax. It's not like Wiggins made $40 million a year. He was set to make $9 million next year, and it saved them over $60 million in luxury tax payments to cut $9 million in salary. Sankofa seems stuck on Herro - but if you add him to a Cad - Ausar - Jalen core you're right up against the tax and start having to make financial decisions not basketball decisions. It's coming anyway but I see no reason to accelerate it for a marginal upgrade. Quote
Deleterious Posted June 22 Author Posted June 22 He basically says the trade will be done by tomorrow's draft. He also said it will only be a two team trade. Either MIL-MIA or MIL-BOS with the possibility that expands at a later date. Quote
buddha Posted June 22 Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Deleterious said: He basically says the trade will be done by tomorrow's draft. He also said it will only be a two team trade. Either MIL-MIA or MIL-BOS with the possibility that expands at a later date. thank god! Quote
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