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5/13 7:10 O's @ Tigers


Tigeraholic1

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The most successful version of this bullpen has Gregory Soto in it.... you aren't DFA'ing him, I get it.

But man, I don't know how you can trust him in leverage situations at the moment. Hitting the first two batters, particularly the second one in a 2-2 count? You can't do that as a closer and expect to close the win out.

They got lucky tonight... they really need to consider giving a little more runway to both Lange and Vest in leverage going forward and give Soto a breather.

Edited by mtutiger
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6 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Legendary airhead C J Nitkowski, who pretty much sucked, once complained about being used in a variety of situations.  "Guys want to know what their role is".  Sounds like he and Hinch would get along.

Was it Gardy that said, "your role is to get guys out when I give you ball"?

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I'll go back to what I said about the hitters - one of the things that keeps guys keyed up when things are going bad is fear of losing their role. The take the role away so they can't worry about it any more. That may be the quickest way to get them back to where you can give them the role back.

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Soto has 9.1 innings, 8 walks and 2 hbps.  That's a WHIP of over 1.00 before anyone even hits a fair ball.  I agree that he has too much talent to give up on, he needs to be on the team, but it is stupid to say publicly that he will be closing tomorrow night.  Stupid to even think it actually, but really stupid to blurt it out.

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52 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Someone said exactly that, it might have been earlier than Gardy...I don't remember what year it was.  It sounds more like Gardy than Brad.

Lol!  It was Phil Garner in 2000!  For those of us of a certain age, these crappy players all end up in one heap.

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1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Soto has 9.1 innings, 8 walks and 2 hbps.  That's a WHIP of over 1.00 before anyone even hits a fair ball.  I agree that he has too much talent to give up on, he needs to be on the team, but it is stupid to say publicly that he will be closing tomorrow night.  Stupid to even think it actually, but really stupid to blurt it out.

Closing is largely a mental game. You can’t give your guy more anxiety answering that question any other way.

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45 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Closing is largely a mental game. You can’t give your guy more anxiety answering that question any other way.

I disagree 100%.  You protect your employees by refusing to answer the question, you just say that each situation will be evaluated at the time and based on availability.  Now he has ratcheted up the pressure on Soto even more because he is kind of clueless about relationship management which is most of his job.  He just made Soto's situation even worse.

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5 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

I disagree 100%.  You protect your employees by refusing to answer the question, you just say that each situation will be evaluated at the time and based on availability.  Now he has ratcheted up the pressure on Soto even more because he is kind of clueless about relationship management which is most of his job.  He just made Soto's situation even worse.

The pressure on Soto (and to a lesser extent Fulmer) kinda ratcheted up regardless by the play of those below them. Particularly with Vest having to bail him out last night.

It's a results oriented business, and the Tigers bullpen has a couple of young arms who, both in terms of peripherals and in terms of command and quality of stuff, are just outpitching the big dogs right now. That should be all the pressure they need to act. 

Edited by mtutiger
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Hitting the first two batters last night in a leverage situation, thus putting the team in a position to lose, means Soto is bad at his job as a closer; and in life, when you're bad at your job (as Soto has been so far this season), you should lose your job.  I have no issues with giving him a couple more chances to see if he corrects, but the leash has to be short....same with Fulmer.  AJ can lose alot of fan support if he goes full by the book "because he's muh closer!!" and dogmatically trots a flailing Soto out there all season.

All that said, worrying about a closer who can seal the deal on a win, is a gift in itself with this current team....been awhile since we've even been worried about it, given this offense normally doesnt score runs or have a lead in the 9th, so this is nice.

Edited by Dtrain72
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Thinking back on it a little more, a corollary game for how last night played out that didn't work out was the Eric Haase defensive meltdown game in Minneapolis. Soto wasn't on a leash that night, and to the extent anybody may have gotten up to start warming in the BP (I believe it was Barnes IIRC), it seemed less about relieving Soto in that moment and more about preparing for extra innings.

The situation isn't entirely the same (other leverage relievers had been used, Will Vest was viewed differently at the time, Chafin was still on IL, etc.), but having said that, Hinch does deserve some credit for acting as quickly as he did last night and it may be a sign that Soto is on a shorter leash now.

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10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Why just a breather?  Remove him from the role permanently.  Too many walks.  

He's been a consistent 5.0+ BB9 every season.  Sure, its fun that he throws hard and can strike guys out. but he allows a lot of baserunners.

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10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think Fulmer is mostly rusty but I don't know how you work relievers back into form when your team never gets a comfortable lead. Soto is over throwing everything - just dumb because he has great stuff. Maybe need to turn off the radar gun when he pitches.

Well, how do you get RPs steady work when you have a bullpen of 9?

And Chafin for only 8 pitches?  Come on, what are we doing?

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9 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Legendary airhead C J Nitkowski, who pretty much sucked, once complained about being used in a variety of situations.  "Guys want to know what their role is".  Sounds like he and Hinch would get along.

Get outs.

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10 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Legendary airhead C J Nitkowski, who pretty much sucked, once complained about being used in a variety of situations.  "Guys want to know what their role is".  Sounds like he and Hinch would get along.

Somehow Nitkowski managed to get on with the Rangers to be a color commentator. Can't stand him, makes Jack Morris seem humble by comparison 

Edited by mtutiger
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20 minutes ago, casimir said:

 

And Chafin for only 8 pitches?  Come on, what are we doing?

The thought process may be that bringing him back out risks his availability for today.

Even so, it's better to risk that than to turn to Barnes there... 4-0 isn't a save situation, but going to Barnes seems more like a 6+ run lead kinda move 

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46 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The thought process may be that bringing him back out risks his availability for today.

Even so, it's better to risk that than to turn to Barnes there... 4-0 isn't a save situation, but going to Barnes seems more like a 6+ run lead kinda move 

Win the game at hand.  The offense might put up a bagel or pretzel stick the next game and Chafin won't be needed.

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10 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Lol!  It was Phil Garner in 2000!  For those of us of a certain age, these crappy players all end up in one heap.

Random, but looking at Phil Garner's Wikipedia page, his 2005 Houston Astros (who would go onto make the World Series) lost 30 of their first 45 games.

Maybe all hope isn't lost yet? Lol

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3 hours ago, Dave Christian said:

Just when it looked like Torkelson would be vacationing in Toledo, he went 2 for 3 last night and looked much better on defense.

Hope springs eternal!!!

It looks like he took C Mo's advice to simplify and just do one thing, and right now that is pulling the ball, which is fine. He can expand his comfort zone on varying his approach once he has the 'get out front on the fastball' thing down.

Edited by gehringer_2
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