Edman85 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 My only take on the Colorado Supreme Court is it is kind of sad a court has to make that call. I just can't see how January 2021 hasn't made Trump a non-starter for so many. Just pathetic idiocy from the right wing. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 from what I can tell, people a lot smarter than me are arguing that Trump is properly barred under the 14th amendment and people a lot dumber than me are arguing that Trump is not 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Trump doesn't love anyone. He finds some people useful. Until they aren’t useful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: No person shall ... hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath ... as an officer of the United States ... to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same ... so, the 14th amendment requires no convictions. Confederates who were booted or barred from fed government did not get a trials where they argued about Northern aggression. any conviction of Trump does not hurt the argument he engaged insurrection or rebellion, but conviction is both 1) not needed under the 14th amendment and 2) not relevant without the 14th amendment. So, if anyone wants to hold onto the well regulated militia as the right to have whatever weaponry one wants to because it’s in the constitution, then they must also adhere to this as well, right? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 Imagine the Biden Crime Family after all of these SCOTUS precedents from Trump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 The CO ruling is fun but I fully expect the SC to shoot it down so I’m not really giving it much thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) Since it only pertains to the primary ballot in a state Trump has never won... Edited December 21, 2023 by CMRivdogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Don't need to be charged or convicted, according to the Constitution. And he took an oath to uphold the Constitution. I have to believe due process under the 5th which has precedence would come into play and have a role in how the 14th is interpreted. 16 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: Offensive? After Trump calls every single opponent a made up nickname? Talking about how ugly someone's wife is? Yes, he's offensive. Offensive to the entire country. Or world. No one here is arguing that Trump isn't offensive. You laughing that Trump's supporters are too dumb to even spell his name is. It's no different than the Republicans that say African Americans are stupid because they support democrats. 16 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: He hates the poorly educated. They disgust him, and you know that. But the poorly educated white trash of this country LOVE him, and MAGA consists of 99.9% of poorly educated white trash. That's who he caters to, and you know that. White trash, huh? Pretty sure when democrats had a large chunk of these folks they were called hard working, blue collar union workers that were just trying to raise a family. Once a chunk of them, who were neglected by both parties for decades, starts hearing the same words their leaders use by a political leader of what they always thought was an opposition party and they start listening, now of course they are white trash. 16 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: PS: I loved SF's post because: (A) I would like to see the Supreme Court uphold the ruling. Did you have a problem with that? (B) I would like to see other states follow suit, particularly Arizona, Michigan, PA, and Georgia. Did you have a problem with that? (C) I would love to force Trump to be a write-in candidate in every state that is possible, because it would split the Republican Party in two. Then they could restart as two parties, one MAGA Republican Party, and one Establishment Republicans that decrees it's platform to be: a balanced budget, globalism, socially moderate, anti-fascist, experts in finance & foreign policy, secure borders, etc... Did you have a problem with that. I didn't even mean my love of SF's post to concern that last point that you decided to pick out of 4 different key points... But since you've mentioned it: Trump caters to the poorly educated and you know that to be true. If you wanna claim otherwise, I'm calling you a LIAR. A - I think it sets us on a wrong path if SCOTUS upholds it. B - I don't want other states to follow, particularly Texas, Florida, TN, all of whom I could see removing Biden. C - Screw a GOP split, I'm going to fight until the Trump portion is defeated. 39 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Since it only pertains to the primary ballot in a state Trump has never won... Currently, but if upheld, it'll affect other states and candidates. Eventually only blue states will elect the Democrats and only Red states will elect the GOP. So instead of the loudest from each party being the extremes, the extreme's is what we'll have as our only options. Edited December 21, 2023 by ewsieg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Currently, but if upheld, it'll affect other states and candidates. Eventually only blue states will elect the Democrats and only Red states will elect the GOP. So instead of the loudest from each party being the extremes, the extreme's is what we'll have as our only options. Eventually? That's what's happening now. In reality national elections are basically decided by a handful of "purple" states. It's been that way (with a few exceptions) as long as I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 How could other states like TN, FL, TX, etc follow this and remove Biden from the ballot if Biden has never engaged in insurrection against the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, pfife said: How could other states like TN, FL, TX, etc follow this and remove Biden from the ballot if Biden has never engaged in insurrection against the US? Their talking point is his “refusal to secure the border” and “student loans” is considered insurrection. Seriously. The WSJ said that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 FWIW the primary petitioners in the Colorado case were Republicans Quote More than three months ago, a group of Colorado electors eligible to vote in the Republican presidential primary—both registered Republican and unaffiliated voters (“the Electors”)—filed a lengthy petition in the District Court for the City and County of Denver (“Denver District Court” or “the district court”), asking .. https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Opinions/2023/23SA300.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 27 minutes ago, oblong said: Their talking point is his “refusal to secure the border” and “student loans” is considered insurrection. Seriously. The WSJ said that. LOL. Apparently it's insurrection to disagree with the GOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted December 21, 2023 Author Share Posted December 21, 2023 (edited) I guess if the problem is that the GOP will misappropriate the amendment in response, the solution isn't to pretend the amendment doesn't exist. They could and may misappropriate the amendment regardless of any precedent. Edited December 21, 2023 by pfife 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 2 hours ago, CMRivdogs said: Since it only pertains to the primary ballot in a state Trump has never won... This doesn't help the Democrats at all. It probably helps Trump if anything. I don't believe he should be allowed to run, but I am 99% sure he's not going to go to prison and also that he will be eligible to run. it's best they figure out how to beat him in the election. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 1 hour ago, pfife said: LOL. Apparently it's insurrection to disagree with the GOP. Granted… it’s just desantis. He’s not that smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 And the GOP base is dumb enough to believe that analogy is sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 19 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: I hope you understand that this is going to actually help Trump because it will be seen as purely political and it will make him look like a victim. best be careful here. That's kind of the part I'm concerned about—that this entire episode is going to convince people who were on the fence, or maybe even some on the margins who had left him, to conclude that the despotic Biden government is abusing its power and they must elect Trump to stop him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 3 hours ago, CMRivdogs said: Eventually? That's what's happening now. In reality national elections are basically decided by a handful of "purple" states. It's been that way (with a few exceptions) as long as I can remember. I was taking it to an extreme where states decide who can run against their party. Biden may have been elected by a handful of purple states, but he won the primary by winning a lot of red and purple states that weren't comfortable going with folks perceived to be left of him. 3 hours ago, pfife said: How could other states like TN, FL, TX, etc follow this and remove Biden from the ballot if Biden has never engaged in insurrection against the US? Hopefully a bar will remain high enough that they can't. Right now though, Colorado has decided Trump did this. I'm just saying I don't think they should be the authoritative voice in determining that, I don't think SCOTUS should be either. There are laws in place, they should be pursued and I would hope justice is served, at that point, there is no question about whether he can run again or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 19 hours ago, CMRivdogs said: This looks like a self defeating cause. If Biden loses these states it's almost guaranteed they'll be under a Muslim ban in 2025 It's not escaping my notice that no actual Muslim leaders are even mentioned in the press release, so its provenance is, at the very least, suspect. This might as well be a missive straight from Trump campaign headquarters, aka the Kremlin. Not for nothing, the guy's X feed is extremely pro-Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 3 hours ago, pfife said: How could other states like TN, FL, TX, etc follow this and remove Biden from the ballot if Biden has never engaged in insurrection against the US? They may actually, perhaps even honestly, argue Biden's entire presidency is an insurrection against a free and fair election that Trump won in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, chasfh said: They may actually, perhaps even honestly, argue Biden's entire presidency is an insurrection against a free and fair election that Trump won in 2020. "Honestly"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: "Honestly"??? Meaning there are people who truly believe Biden stole the election working in various state houses and whatnot. Horrifying as being a true believer in this is, it's dishonest only if they know for a fact it's all a lie. If they truly believe it, they can be said honestly argue their case. That's what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 1 hour ago, oblong said: Granted… it’s just desantis. He’s not that smart. Remember when he was the "smart version of Trump"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Meaning there are people who truly believe Biden stole the election working in various state houses and whatnot. Horrifying as being a true believer in this is, it's dishonest only if they know for a fact it's all a lie. If they truly believe it, they can be said honestly argue their case. That's what I mean. I actually think there a LOT of people like that..like the majority of Trump supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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