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I see the Tigers as a team that is young and growing and learning, not as a team that is mature and stuck and on a treadmill to oblivion. You may not agree, and that's fine. The way I see it, the Tigers are moving very deliberately—obviously too deliberately in the Win-Now! view of practically everyone here—toward a sustainable organization that can compete every year. They've established a plan, and there is no reason to deviate from that plan right now just because the players aren't mature right now, or because we have stopgaps to help us be at least somewhat competitive while we retool, which is what literally everyone here has been clamoring for. Although a few guys on our roster today will be here when we are truly ready to compete, most of them will not be. So I don't complain about having guys like Urshela or Canha just because they're not Chapman or Ohtani, and I won't hammer the coaching because they can't make Rogers and Kreidler good major league hitters. I'm looking more at the Greenes and the Vierlings and the Torks and the Keiths of the group. Those are the guys that I'm focusing on, because those are the guys we're hanging our future on, not Zach ****ing McKinstry. I mean, outside of his family, who even cares about that guy? He's just passing through only because we need someone on the field today. So I don't whine about him—he might well be gone well before the season is done. This state of affairs makes a lot of fans unhappy, and I get that. I'm not happy that Al Avila literally wasted seven years of our lives and then we had to start all over, either. I've been here since 2015, too. But I'm willing to stick it out to see whether this new approach can bear fruit, and I'm not willing to declare it as failing just because we're not favorites to win a ring less than a year and a half in. If that's too much for some people, that's OK. There are plenty of other teams to root for in the meantime—Lions, Red Wings, U-M, even other MLB teams, whoever they want—and there will be plenty of room on the bandwagon when they want to come back once we start competing regularly.

If it’s true they covet hitters that control the strike zone, then they won’t draft Seaver King, he’s a notorious free swinger.

I don't understand the proactive concern that Harris is merely just another 1st level smart guy, which I guess means he's a below average intellect, except in the context of your being afraid of giving in to hope and so you maintain the high wall of skepticism because you don't want be thought of as a fool if he flops. If that's not the case, then I don't see the value in that thinking. Flip side, I'm sure some may wish to characterize me as an dimwitted slappy for Harris (and Hinch) so they can ridicule me for it, and I'm sure there's a lot of satisfaction to be gained in that. But all I'm saying for the umpteenth time is that I am assuming that Harris is capable of delivering on his vision to build a sustainable winner in Detroit until such time that it is proven he can't, won't, or is not allowed to. I'm just not in the camp that assumes Harris will fail until he proves otherwise, which I admit I thought of Avila from day one. This feels a lot different to me, and if I risk losing the respect of other fans for being reasonably optimistic about Harris and then he flops like Avila, that's a risk I'm willing to take. I don't have so much time left, so I might as well be optimistic instead of fatalistic—especially given that there's reason to be.

We may have different defintions of "lotto ticket" but If all Harris gets is a lotto ticket for Flaherty, I would be disappointed. With a lot of teams looking for pitching and Flaherty having an excellent season, I am hoping they either exrend him or get a major league ready prospect.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-change-of-scenery-has-worked-well-for-jack-flaherty/ Flaherty, on the other hand, could be viewed as a rental whose value they’ve quickly restored; if he netted three prospects in the 35-40 FV range last summer when he was scuffling, the return for the Tigers ought to be more substantial while he’s pitching well, and he could very well wind up as the top starter available. On the other hand, given how well he’s meshed with Detroit’s coaches, perhaps he’s open to an extension.

Man, that call on Keith in the sixth—looks even worse on a graphic.

If he stays in Toledo until July they get an extra year of control.

that call may well have been the ball game. Challenge needs to come the majors.

We have one, he's playing center.

They still had a one run lead after 6. And the bullpen couldn’t hold it. Among league leaders in blown leads after 6 innings. Beginning to realize there is nothing special about Fetter et al. Not in the same league as Cleveland or Seattle for instance in terms of pitching development.

If Vest is your first option in a one run game, you are not serious.

So, I was watching the Tigers/Astros game Saturday where they featured a group of guys that travel to a game together every year and I immediately thought, hmm I wonder if those guys are from that MotownSports forum I used to frequent. I clicked on the bookmark I had saved and it sent me to some gambling site. I thought, holy Pete Rose, this isn't the place. So I used my limited tech skills and searched for y'all. Here we are. Been a while eh? What's new? 😏

Reese Olson does not want to be interviewed

It's good to play next to a Hughes

The difference is that in the NFL, teams are pretty much on a level playing field, so once you get a smarter than average FO in place, you start to win, plus the turnover is much faster for an NFL team so things can happen much faster. A mid/small market baseball team already starts at such a disadvantage that just being above average in the FO is not enough, you have to be *way* above average. I'm hoping Harris is that guy, but the jury is still out that maybe he's only another 1st level smart guy. Ilitch wants to do the sustainable thing - without getting on the boom bust cycle Dombrowski operated in, but the Tigers (like the Royals/Indians/Cinci/Stl/etc/ have a terribly narrow window to succeed at it.

Another aspect could be a changing philosophy as much as the particular plays. For instance, did McVay start introducing concepts that resulted in giving Goff less freedom to make his own calls on the field? That's the kind of thing that could sour the relationship even absent issues around ability to execute particular plays. I've seen Goff's coach from Cal say that he felt Goff was the best game manager he had ever coached and he gave him wide latitude (rare at the NCAA level) to make decisions on the field. From what I gather Goff also enjoys that kind of confidence from this Det staff. I think it's easy to envision a dynamic where a smart coach believes he is certainly smarter than his players and they need to bend to his control, and a proud skilled player asking "why don't you let me play my best game?" Not sure that has to be anyone's fault - it's just a mismatch.

These tankies want Ukraine to secede territory to Russia to end the war. Weirdly, they don't suggest just giving Gaza to Israel to end the war. Palestinian "resistance" is accepted but not Ukrainian. They were tankies before they became Hamasholes. They are doing their part to get Trump elected so the work of Russia.

I buy this arg a lot more for pitchers than hitters. Hitting is a young man's game. Guys that don't show some MLB hitting talent by 23/24 at most 25 probably won't ever be more than role players. As for the future - there's some light in Lakeland, but very little in the way of bats likely to make Det anywhere above that (Lee?) so it's going to be a long haul if they can't find some help outside the current org.

All the close low scoring games they were winning in March and April with low strand rates and clutch bullpen performance….that regresses to a point where we are now. If we could score more runs and have a three or four run lead occasionally, it would reduce the leverage that bullpen is under constantly. The offense isn’t going to get fixed anytime in the near future, so we will have to deal with this.

sure, I can see two ways of looking at those results. The first is that you have a bunch of AAAA players, so when they face a team that by circumstance can only throw a AAA level pitcher at them, they clean up, but then can't handle normal MLB pitching the majority of the time - so there is your rationale for boom and bust. The other way to look at it is that you have hitters with MLB potential (if not, why did the FO bring them to the Majors?) but are trapped in an approach that is too geared to hitting mistakes only. The outcome of either scenario will be the same - an exaggerated amount of boom and bust based on who they are facing. I think both are or have been true. In Torkelson's case I do believe he is a better hitter than the approach he was using was allowing him to realize, (though may yet be proved wrong 😥). The staff certainly appears to have recognized that and sent him to Toledo to straighten out. They probably should have done it sooner. He would be my main case where I think there had been a coaching failure. Kriedler, McKinstry, Baddoo, are not MLB hitters. Rogers is a AAA hitter with a bit of MLB level power. Vierling, Ibanez, Canha, Kelly are MLB level role bats, not team carriers. Keith and Perez represent hope, but can't be expected to supply much production yet. The only significantly above average quality bat on this team right now is Greene. I'll grant Malloy is still too SSS, but since I've had my reservations about how he would make the transition from the beginning, I haven't seen anything to take me off my scepticism. Clearly since the hitting was thin to begin with, the loss of Carpenter and Torkelson's regression have been fatal. The difference between one feared hitter and three in a line-up is pretty huge.

For the first few years with Fetter/ Hinch, the bullpen did well without much talent. It looked liked they had some bullpen magic. This year, not so much. So, maybe bullpen success is more about talent and luck than about management. You really can't reliably predict bullpens.

Miller is the odd case right now. His peripherals look fine, the result are terrible. In 6 IP since coming off the IL he's given up no walks, 3 hits, 6K, a 143 BA against, and blown 3 saves. How do you do that? Have to think his luck should improve.

He should have tried beating double teams instead.

I think this discussion about Mahomes is ridiculous. In an alternate universe and we had our exact roster (and coaches and GM) with Mahomes as our QB, we would be a dynasty team. This has nothing to do with the value of Goff or Stafford. Goff and Stafford contributed directly to what our current situation is both with play and draft picks that directly landed contributing players. I just feel like Mahomes is a one in a generation type player. I feel like that for more than one reason. First is the eye test which I think is underrated when evaluating a player. He's not the most accurate, fastest, or is most mobile. He just has the it factor and makes plays to win games. He (or the team) might look terrible for 3 quarters but he is just the player that wins games when you need him to. Second is he has already done it more than any other current player (he's still a pretty young QB). He has done it with a depleted roster. He has done it injured. In the NFL, you can not win with one player and you do need to have a great coaching staff and GM that results in a good roster. Although Mahomes is the one player I feel like currently in the NFL that could do it with the least amount of quality players around him. Will he be better than Brady (as far as Championships and stats)? If I was betting, I would say no because I just think a lot more still has to happen and he would have to stay healthy and play into his mid 40's. Although if there was a player that had a chance, its him. Goff is a top 5 QB (with good OL and talent around him) and a top 15 QB (with a bad OL and with bad talent around him). Which could be good enough to win one or multiple championships (still to be determined). With Goff, you need to build around. Mahomes would make any team instantly better. He's just that guy.

So, I understand pitching Foley on Sunday because he hadn't pitched in 5 days. But throwing Holton 2 innings in that game down by 3? That probably factors into his lack of availability for this game.

In somewhat fairness to the bullpen this game without absolving their recent month and a half performance, saving a 1 run game for 3 innings is no given. Allowing 1 run over 3 innings is a 3.00 ERA, that's an ace SP. This game is again on the offense. Its funny you bring up Fetter. I've started to question things a bit lately, in particular with how the bullpen has performed. Maybe the pieces just aren't very good to begin with, I don't know. He's had guys with "stuff" that could never figure out the control (Soto, Lange). On the other hand, he polished up Lorenzen and Flaherty is having a resurgence.

That could have been the difference to go seven or eight innings but after his last three starts, I'm happy with how he performed. Next time he'll get his second win.

Losing games like this gets old.

Come on Joe. Blow a save for old times sake.

Remember that time when they scored thirteen runs? That was awesome.

Great job by Olson to bounce back like this after a few rough starts. Just need some runs now.

I clicked on a poll via a text message and they was one of the questions. I inconsistently answered all the questions. Very obvious what their leanings are.

Israel is genociding terrorist.

someone is going to pay charles barkley a TON of money to change his mind.

The Pistons Youtube channel is streaming the final game of the 2004 finals.