mtutiger

Incidentally, you could argue the same for at least Greene, who was above average barreling balls and probably didn't produce enough to show for it.

This is good context, but it really doesn't change the upshot: one player was significantly better and was closer to meeting expectations than the other last year. That doesn't mean that Tork is a bust or will wash out or that Greene will even be a better player than Tork over the course of their careers, the results from 2022 just kinda speak for themselves. Even factoring in luck.

No doubt, Tork was noticeably better upon being called up later in the summer.

Don’t bring facts into this argument.

For reference, Torkelson had an OPS+ of 77. One rookie was just about league average, the other wasnt.

Here's how I would put it... Greene fell within range of what could reasonably expected from a rookie debut season. Or at least the expectations I had going into 2022, especially given his injury. On the lower end of course, but within range. That doesn't mean that he was great or that he doesn't need to improve, but he was within the range of outcomes. And he showed enough for me to believe he'll be at least a solid big leaguer. Tork was nowhere close to the bottom of his range of outcomes as I saw it going into 2022. And I say this as someone who has been one of his bigger defenders and someone who has preached patience with him, he was downright bad in 2022. And because of his performance I have less confidence in him than in Greene. Doesn't mean he won't grow into the role of reach greater heights, but 2022 introduced more uncertainty in his case

Tork was a .604 OPS and a -1.3 WAR, Greene was .682 with a 1.4 WAR Close to an 80 point difference in OPS and close to 3 difference in WAR. I guess one can look at Greene's performance and call it an underperformance (debatable), but it's clear he was in a different ballpark than TORK! in 2022.

Talk about a line that says so much about Trump's character...

Greene hit a ball about 450 feet off Shohei Ohtani (the longest Ohtani has ever given up in the majors) and hit a game winning, 9th inning homer. For better or worse, can't really think of any plays that Tork made with the bat that left that much of an impression on me.

Greene is particularly odd to group in... he played less than 100 games and really showed flashes of greatness at times. He looked better than his baseball card stats overall.

It would be interesting to go back and look at Democratic pol reaction toward the Steve Scalise shooting and compare it to the Paul Pelosi attack and Republican pol reaction. My guess is that it would night and day.

I dont think Harris views this as a rebuild... my opinion is that he looks at the roster and sees a mix of players who underperformed their career statistics (perhaps unstainably), young players who are capable of performing better than they did in their first year and a few guys who are effectively free agents who didn't contribute at all to last year's club (ie. Meadows, Turnbull, Rogers) and thinks that the roster, with improvements to pitching and defense, are capable of outperforming expectations. Not saying he's right or wrong, but that's the logic of the moves imo. Also, I'm not sure that with the trades of Soto or Jimenez, that I would say this offseason had a "lack of activity". In terms of signing established Wil Myers types it was, but he's leveraged the Tigers assets as best as he can. And there are a decent amount of teams, including some big boys like the Red Sox or Dodgers, who one can argue have actually done less.

If you don't want to engage, there's always the option of not engaging. The discussion around Thompson, imo, is relevant in how it compares to the current PBOs view on moving players and churning as necessary. And I suspect that if Harris encounters a similar situation going forward, he will handle it differently.

Also, this is a Message Board... unless our names are 'Scott Harris', just about everything discussed is moot

Either way, Baddoo / Carpenter had a lot of questions about their readiness at the time. Otherwise one or both of them could have been in the mix at the time when Grossman was down and the outfield was shorthanded as opposed to sending Willi Castro out into CF to **** up routine fly balls. Just think we need to clear up the record on that. And yes, I'd rather see competent outfield play from a AAAA player than giving reps to someone like Castro who couldn't play the position. That's embarrassing and doesn't provide any value or enjoyment for the viewing fan.

Carpenter wasn't even in AAA in late May-early June and Baddoo didn't get back on the diamond and playing until the second week of June because of an Minor League IL stint. So not sure how either of them factor in. It would have been down to Hill/Cameron/Castrei/Reyes had Thompson been an option.

If Thompson, in a world where he didn't have the Dodgers lined up, were taking bats away from either Cameron or Hill, I wouldn't have cared because, at that point, it had become evident that neither player would be part of the long range plans for the Detroit Tigers and were also destined for 4A status.

A lot of it goes back to the discussion of what amount the recent bout of inflation is driven by fast and loose monetary policy and how much is the shocks to the supply chain... to that end, despite all the coverage of the supply chain issues as they were ongoing, the 'playbook' or 'script' we see in how it is all discussed tends to elide those impacts. Impacts that, again, don't really have much of a precedent and, it stands to reasom, whose second order effects may be hard to quantify or to set expectations for. To that end, the fact that inflation is easing at the same time that kinks in the supply chain and on shipping have unraveles shouldn't be a shock to anyone.

This is a really good point.

And this is why you don't get high off your own supply

This is the part where I think we (and by "we" I mean economists and the media that takes cues from them) need to acknowledge that, just as the pandemic was unprecedented, the economic recovery after it will also be unprecedented. I dont really buy that there is anything malicious in the recovery or that the media really wants us to have one, that was more sarcasm, it's more that there's a level of confidence (and arrogance) expressed in these predictions/expectations that seems misguided.

Even setting aside "who would want to play for the Tigers" and the Dodgers being a preferable place generally, Thompson also had a preexisting relationship with that organization and one of his best years as a professional playing for them. I could see the appeal of holding out for a trade to the Dodgers was worth whatever risk came from it in his case.

Seconded

OK

Possibility in regards to Thompson, reality insofar that it happens. I get it.