Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[mtutiger]

45 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Yep, I thought about that several times yesterday and today.
Twenty four years ago today this country was probably more united than at any other time since the attack on Pearl Harbor and the WWII years. 
Today? I’d feel comfortable in saying that this country hasn’t been this divided since the Civil War years.
Civility is dying. It’s bad. 


 

I watched a clip of Vin Scully's comments after 9/11 on the first Dodger game last night... we weren't perfect and certainly what we did afterward (ie Iraq) probably helped create this environment. But it is hard to imagine anything really uniting us anymore.

Tend to think most people see this and understand it, but lack any ability to be introspective as to the bad actors on their side. 

[mtutiger]

45 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Man, I can't tell whether we are talking about Coliorado or Utah now.  The Colorado shooter was a radicalized white supremacist.  What's the current story on Tyler Robinson? 

He appears to be a nihilist with possible groyper tendencies 

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Tend to think most people see this and understand it, but lack any ability to be introspective as to the bad actors on their side. 

I would add, this starts with the President of the United States. Who by his own admission has no interest in uniting Americans

 

[oblong]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I watched a clip of Vin Scully's comments after 9/11 on the first Dodger game last night... we weren't perfect and certainly what we did afterward (ie Iraq) probably helped create this environment. But it is hard to imagine anything really uniting us anymore.

Tend to think most people see this and understand it, but lack any ability to be introspective as to the bad actors on their side. 

January 6 and the ensuing impeachment was a missed opportunity.  That could have been it.  Make Pence president for a few weeks. The republicans publicly purge Trump. And then they can fight with Biden as normal. It would have cost them nothing and today we’d probably have a president Haley or whoever.  That was the moment for the GOP to change. It would have worked had they had the courage 

[Tigermojo]

In case anyone cares, I'm happy now because Maga is 100% wrong as usual from the snake oil salesmen pedophile in chief, all his cronies and all the cult members.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, pfife said:

A republican exploits preferred republican gun policies to murder a firebrand republican talker at a republican political rally in a republican state therefore the left needs to pay for it. 

Don’t underestimate their ability to succeed at hanging this on Teh Left anyway. 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, 1776 said:

I’d feel comfortable in saying that this country hasn’t been this divided since the Civil War years.
Civility is dying. It’s bad. 


 

The assassination of civility has been very, very profitable. 

[mtutiger]

Just now, chasfh said:

Don’t underestimate their ability to succeed at hanging this on Teh Left anyway. 

I don't see this moving the needle one way or another. 

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, oblong said:

January 6 and the ensuing impeachment was a missed opportunity.  That could have been it.  Make Pence president for a few weeks. The republicans publicly purge Trump. And then they can fight with Biden as normal. It would have cost them nothing and today we’d probably have a president Haley or whoever.  That was the moment for the GOP to change. It would have worked had they had the courage 

Yes, I agree, and the only problem with what sounds like should have been that perfect plan is that the Republican senators were afraid they’d be hanged, literally, by their own radicalized ride-or-die red hat constituents, probably led by their own states’ Republican congressional delegation. Would that have actually happened? No way to know, but those swing-vote senators were not about to FAFO. 

Edited September 12 by chasfh

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I don't see this moving the needle one way or another. 

It will move sales and donations. That’s what it’s about. 

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

It will move sales and donations. That’s what it’s about. 

If that's what this is really about, they'd be better off with Charlie Kirk alive 

[oblong]

12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Yes, I agree, and the only problem with what sounds like should have been that perfect plan is that the Republican senators were afraid they’d be hanged, literally, by their own radicalized ride-or-die red hat constituents, probably led by their own states’ Republican congressional delegation. Would that have actually happened? No way to know, but those swing-vote senators were not about to FAFO. 

I really don’t get it. Unless they assumed it wasn’t necessary.  He’d go away. If they knew now?  In 6 months they could have gone back to hating Biden and doing the normak thing. 

[Motown Bombers]

All a handful of Bernie or bust, Jill Stein, and Gary Johnson voters had to do was vote for Hillary. Trump would have been viewed as a loser and republicans would see they wasted their shot at beating a weak candidate. Trump recedes back to his game show. 

[oblong]

25 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

All a handful of Bernie or bust, Jill Stein, and Gary Johnson voters had to do was vote for Hillary. Trump would have been viewed as a loser and republicans would see they wasted their shot at beating a weak candidate. Trump recedes back to his game show. 

That too.  And going further Nader voters in 2000. (And I was  glad at the time they did it)

[HighOPS]

It doesn't change the recent discussion a lot but the second impeachment of Trump was during Biden's presidency. 

So many things that came from assuming Trump would not get elected. Imagine Obama thanking the Senate for their consent without debate and seating Garland. But, I think the calculation was Trump wouldn't win anyway so whatever.

And back in 2000 the Palm Beach ballot misdesign was enough to tip Florida and let the candidate with the second largest plurality win. 

 

 

Edited September 12 by HighOPS

[pfife]

Republicans are responsible for the Republican president.

[MichiganCardinal]

Conservatives searching for a motive:

[MichiganCardinal]

And for the record, because I haven’t chimed in yet, I’m sad Charlie Kirk is dead.

This country is a scary, hyper-polarized place right now, and it’s full of guns. Kirk’s death doesn’t make any of those things better. He was an orator with a loud microphone. Nothing more or less. He didn’t deserve to die in front of his wife and kids for it.

[oblong]

I think 99.99% of the general public agrees with you but the 25,000 adults in the US who don’t have an internet presence. 

[gehringer_2]

51 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Conservatives searching for a motive:

Ironically, the former does exactly help make the latter possible. 

Condition someone to always just accept doctrine, then suddenly remove the constraints  - and the moral reasoning muscle is deeply atrophied. It may go in a lot of wrong directions before it ever (hopefully) does find its ground. I know all the modern understanding about young brains, but all the more reason they should start being challenged with taking moral responsibility for themselves early, when the stakes are still low and they can learn their own way. I always thought Judaism was onto to something then they told a 13yr old it was time to grow up and start taking responsibility for yourself. If you are 13 with half an ounce of sense, you can figure out what is right and wrong for yourself if given the chance. But that's what too many parents are afraid or, or are being taught to be afraid of by the people they allow themselves to be led by.

[Tigeraholic1]

 

[pfife]

It would be awesome if x posts didn't embed here.

[pfife]

The Cnn that employs tapper?

Try reality

 

[mtutiger]

8 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

And for the record, because I haven’t chimed in yet, I’m sad Charlie Kirk is dead.

This country is a scary, hyper-polarized place right now, and it’s full of guns. Kirk’s death doesn’t make any of those things better. He was an orator with a loud microphone. Nothing more or less. He didn’t deserve to die in front of his wife and kids for it.

Agreed in full.

Again, nobody is "celebrating" his death

[oblong]

It just comes down to the fact that conservatives are so brainwashed and spoon fed and sheltered that any statement not in full compliance with their beliefs is seen as confrontational and that extends to saying things like celebrating or mocking.  Their brains can’t process context  everything has to be an absolute.