Tiger337 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 23 minutes ago, Edman85 said: No bow, but he has always been on my radar (helped somewhat by the fact he was a COVID OOTP pickup of mine who produced). He popped up on an offseason "out of options" list I put together. People were over emphasizing a small sample of MLB stats as well as meaningless spring training stats. I did think his AAA numbers needed to be park/league adjusted, but knew there was something there and the vitriol and the "why not keep Harold" talk was hilarious at the time and moreso now two months later. They could also be doing that now! He has been walking consistently though which was my concern in his previous MLB trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: So far at least - McKinstry is looking like our 'Donnie Kelley V2.0'. Old school player with a high baseball IQ, a wide skillset, may not be great but never hurts you either. Like him a lot so far. This year, so far, he is looking like somebody that could be a regular starter. Kelly never did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 Yeah, aside from being white L/R multipositional guys, there is no comparison between Kelly and McKinstry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 20 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: This year, so far, he is looking like somebody that could be a regular starter. Kelly never did. Hope so, though Kelly didn't start on better Tiger teams than this one so it's not quite the equivalent comparison.... yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: No bow, but he has always been on my radar (helped somewhat by the fact he was a COVID OOTP pickup of mine who produced). He popped up on an offseason "out of options" list I put together. People were over emphasizing a small sample of MLB stats as well as meaningless spring training stats. I did think his AAA numbers needed to be park/league adjusted, but knew there was something there and the vitriol and the "why not keep Harold" talk was hilarious at the time and moreso now two months later. I keep saying it, but the worst was Woodbury getting saying (paraphrasing) that they gave all those ABs in Spring Training to Cesar Hernandez only to go out and trade for McKinstry. You would think the beat writers would know better than to overvalue ST stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 The way they are learning to take pitches and work counts - it's exactly what they wanted. This team is pretty darn scrappy and it's nice to see Greene & Tork really develop. I mean Tork is the very definition of the line from Bull Durham about one more hit a week, one ground ball with eyes makes you star. He's no longer looking lost on fastballs. He hits the ball so hard and right at guys - or ground balls so hard that he can't out run 'em (he runs pretty well). In a different era without so much data putting guys in the perfect spot, he's probably hitting at least 30 points higher. That's why Pat Caputo bitching about his BA just annoys me so much. Pat, have you been WATCHING the games, because he's pretty locked in. He'll always strike out a lot, but so did Reggie Jackson and Mike Schmidt (no, not saying Tork is that good, but strikeouts are part of the game). This is fun. Just give me a good reason to watch into at least late August and I will be happy. Baddoo has turned into a major leaguer too. I think that maybe you can start keeping a spot for him every day for a few years. This division can probably be won with as little as 83 wins. Why not us? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 23 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: I mean Tork is the very definition of the line from Bull Durham about one more hit a week, one ground ball with eyes makes you star. The other thing is his walk rate is starting to climb. If he begins to walk at the MLB level at near the rates he walked coming up, his OPS is going to be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 22 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The other thing is his walk rate is starting to climb. If he begins to walk at the MLB level at near the rates he walked coming up, his OPS is going to be fine. It will be. McKinsty's OBP is .388 and that's a perfect leadoff hitter. Riley's up to .363 and Baddoo is at .355. And Jake Rogers is only hitting .161 but when you watch the games it seems like he's on base a lot more than his numbers indicates. He doesn't get on much, but he makes it count. If we had last year's pitching............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 3 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: I would prefer Tork! to pick all those balls out of the dirt and miss a handful of foul balls. It doesn't have to be either or. It would be nice if he could do both, as well as the thing you don't mention, which is range to his right to stop balls in play. But he's almost certainly never going to have any range, which is why he is overall a below-average first baseman. Once he starts losing even the skill to scoop balls, stretch and do the splits, that's when he will need to be moved off the field entirely. In the meantime, he needs to hit enough to overcome his deficits on defense, and it looks like he's moving in that direction pretty nicely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: This year, so far, he is looking like somebody that could be a regular starter. Kelly never did. McKinstry doesn't hit the ball even average hard, which is a bit of a red flag, so he probably won't be quite this good (wxOBA, walk rate, strikeout rate) permanently. Pitchers in the new league are going to figure out how to better exploit the holes in his bat, probably by pitching to contact and allowing him to get himself out. But he is definitely hitting well now and is serviceable at multiple positions, so he's worth keeping around for as long as we need him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, chasfh said: McKinstry doesn't hit the ball even average hard, which is a bit of a red flag, so he probably won't be quite this good (wxOBA, walk rate, strikeout rate) permanently. Pitchers in the new league are going to figure out how to better exploit the holes in his bat, probably by pitching to contact and allowing him to get himself out. But he is definitely hitting well now and is serviceable at multiple positions, so he's worth keeping around for as long as we need him. No, he won't hit for a .388 OBP forever. A second baseman with a .340 OBP with average fielding can be a regular. I am not assuming he will do that, but his walk rates in the minors and this year suggests he has the potential to do it. Edited May 26, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: No, he won't hit for a .388 OBP forever. A second baseman with a .340 OBP with average fielding can be a regular. I am not assuming he will do that, but his walk rates in the minors and this year suggests he has the potential to do it. If he could deliver a .340/.410 line for a .750 OPS, I'd be thrilled. He's more of a singles hitter now than ever before, though, so I'd like to see him get it in gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottwood Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) I think even if McKinstry bottoms out, it was still a good process to seek him out and acquire him. There was a lot of underlying data that was really good for him. If they keep acquiring players like that, some may not work out but a number of them will. So far, a lot of what Harris and company have done has made sense. Hopefully it continues. It would be fun to follow a smart organization for once rather than trying to live vicariously through the Rays fanbase or similar organizations. Edited May 26, 2023 by Scottwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: No, he won't hit for a .388 OBP forever. A second baseman with a .340 OBP with average fielding can be a regular. I am not assuming he will do that, but his walk rates in the minors and this year suggests he has the potential to do it. the caveat is that he's a bit long in the tooth to not have already forced his way into a regular gig or be learning/improving on his skillset. I don't know enough of his history to speculate on whether there have been factors holding him back that would give us an expectation he will out-perform his history - but so far so good. Edited May 26, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: the caveat is that he's a bit long in the tooth to not have already forced his way into a regular gig or be learning/improving on his skillset. I don't know enough of his history to speculate on whether there have been factors holding him back that would give us an expectation he will out-perform his history - but so far so good. I am thinking he could be one of these late bloomers that is effective a couple of years and then fades away. That is probably his best case scenario. He's 28, so he is probably already past his peak defensively. His history is that he was good at drawing walks and getting on base in the minors. He couldn't do that initially in the majors. He's doing it this year. Walk rates usually normalize quickly, so I am hopeful this is not a one-month blip. Edited May 26, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 On 5/26/2023 at 3:23 PM, chasfh said: If he could deliver a .340/.410 line for a .750 OPS, I'd be thrilled. He's more of a singles hitter now than ever before, though, so I'd like to see him get it in gear. A homer and a double in today’s (27th) game. That’s what I mean by getting it in gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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