January 2024 Game Threads

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

That was one of the most lopsided overtimes one will ever see. Sens win it. 

Pretty terrible defensive effort the whole game. Sens should have scored about 5.

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, buddha said:

the canucks just traded their first round pick, their fourth round pick, their #3 prospect (a puck moving offensive defenseman), a fringe prospect, and an underachieving forward for lindholm.

so that means the wings #1 pick, their #4 pick, axel sandin pelikka, joe veleno, and robbi fabbri for lindholm.

do you make that deal?  

Nope. But I don't even want another forward - I want an upgrade on D. They are already scoring plenty of goals and Kane has only played in 19. 

[1984Echoes]

11 hours ago, buddha said:

the canucks just traded their first round pick, their fourth round pick, their #3 prospect (a puck moving offensive defenseman), a fringe prospect, and an underachieving forward for lindholm.

so that means the wings #1 pick, their #4 pick, axel sandin pelikka, joe veleno, and robbi fabbri for lindholm.

do you make that deal?  

I just looked at the Canucks prospects 2023 and they had those two defensive prospects at #6 and #9...

So some dispute as to which prospects would have to be included here...

But as stated.. no, I think that's a bit too rich a cost to make the deal.

[1984Echoes]

Again...

If it's Augustine and Albert Johansson (offensive defenseman at GR), or Wallinder, I'm closer to that deal. It does NOT require Pellikka, which is my contention. That you're just trying to blow smoke up...

How are Veleno & Fabbri underachieving forwards? You're constructing this deal incorrectly. You're doing this on purpose just to try and blow it in my face, IMO. You're not being serious, you're just being "FU" right now. The closest comp would be Berggren, who is scoring points at GR but can't break onto the current Wings roster, although he's been here before. OR, pick ONE of Fabbri or Veleno because you, essentially, decided to replace a LOW-LEVEL prospect in the deal with an NHL'er. This tells me you're not being serious. Replace ONE underachieving NHL'er with TWO NHL'ers...? You're just playing games.

And if we've traded away a couple players for extra picks this year, which is also my contention, it lowers the cost of losing a couple picks (by getting some back). I've already stated I want Yzerman to be BOTH a seller and a buyer. A slight reconstruction of the roster, by only a few players, not a total remake... to put better long-term players, and tougher two-way players that can better handle the grind of the playoffs. Mostly on defense. But I'll take a two-way forward also, if we can get one. Like Lindholm.

The only thing you got correct was the 1st and 4th.

But a 1st, 4th, Berggren, Cossa OR Augustine, Wallinder OR Johansson... this is something I would consider.

Canucks probably got the better deal, or players they liked more... but my construction is a lot closer/ more accurate than yours. And maybe Cossa "gets the deal" done.

 

 

 

Edited February 1 by 1984Echoes

[gehringer_2]

12 hours ago, buddha said:

so that means the wings #1 pick, their #4 pick, axel sandin pelikka, joe veleno, and robbi fabbri for lindholm.

 

If the rest doesn't work, can we at least move Veleno? A bag of FoxTrax pucks maybe?

Edited February 1 by gehringer_2

[slothfacekilla]

I feel like Veleno has been more than fine this season as the lowest paid player on the team, I'd like to keep him around until he gets paid a bit more.

That's a lot to give up for a rental 2C in Lindholm.  Probably a no thanks from me for an equivalent deal with the Wings if there is not an extension in place.  Kuzmenko is still a really good piece in the trade even if he's "underachieving" right now, 95 points in 124 NHL games so far in his career.  He just didn't seem to fit with Rick Tochett.  I think the Flames did well here, it is going to take a lot more of those kind of moves to get out of their roster hell though.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Again...

If it's Augustine and Albert Johansson (offensive defenseman at GR), or Wallinder, I'm closer to that deal. It does NOT require Pellikka, which is my contention. That you're just trying to blow smoke up...

How are Veleno & Fabbri underachieving forwards? You're constructing this deal incorrectly. You're doing this on purpose just to try and blow it in my face, IMO. You're not being serious, you're just being "FU" right now. The closest comp would be Berggren, who is scoring points at GR but can't break onto the current Wings roster, although he's been here before. OR, pick ONE of Fabbri or Veleno because you, essentially, decided to replace a LOW-LEVEL prospect in the deal with an NHL'er. This tells me you're not being serious. Replace ONE underachieving NHL'er with TWO NHL'ers...? You're just playing games.

And if we've traded away a couple players for extra picks this year, which is also my contention, it lowers the cost of losing a couple picks (by getting some back). I've already stated I want Yzerman to be BOTH a seller and a buyer. A slight reconstruction of the roster, by only a few players, not a total remake... to put better long-term players, and tougher two-way players that can better handle the grind of the playoffs. Mostly on defense. But I'll take a two-way forward also, if we can get one. Like Lindholm.

The only thing you got correct was the 1st and 4th.

But a 1st, 4th, Berggren, Cossa OR Augustine, Wallinder OR Johansson... this is something I would consider.

Canucks probably got the better deal, or players they liked more... but my construction is a lot closer/ more accurate than yours. And maybe Cossa "gets the deal" done.

 

 

 

you need to settle down and not take this **** personally.

its like when you called me names for saying zach wilson was going to be a bust.  lol.

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

... That's a lot to give up for a rental 2C in Lindholm.  Probably a no thanks from me for an equivalent deal with the Wings if there is not an extension in place...

That would be the key for any Wings trade like this. An extension would HAVE to be agreed upon.

Let's say it's Noah Hanifan... Yeah, gotta have the extension.

[1984Echoes]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

you need to settle down and not take this **** personally.

its like when you called me names for saying zach wilson was going to be a bust.  lol.

It's not personal.

I just think you're jerking me around.

You replaced a low-level prospect with an NHL'er in your "equivalent" trade.

Why did you do that?

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

I feel like Veleno has been more than fine this season as the lowest paid player on the team, I'd like to keep him around until he gets paid a bit more.

That's a lot to give up for a rental 2C in Lindholm.  Probably a no thanks from me for an equivalent deal with the Wings if there is not an extension in place.  Kuzmenko is still a really good piece in the trade even if he's "underachieving" right now, 95 points in 124 NHL games so far in his career.  He just didn't seem to fit with Rick Tochett.  I think the Flames did well here, it is going to take a lot more of those kind of moves to get out of their roster hell though.

regardless of the "match" with the wings' roster, that was my point.  the deal was too rich for me.  they're not going to take berggren or augustine.  a contender will always be able to beat that deal and a contender did beat any deal the wings should have offered for a rental.

vancouver has the most points in the west and is going for a cup.  the wings are barely scrapping into the playoffs.  i dont want them giving up first round picks for rentals or players on the downside of their career.

you want to give me tanev for a second rounder?  i'll take it.  and tanev is different than lindholm because he's older and has a no trade clause.  he can say no if he doesnt want to end up in winnipeg.  like kane, he may want an original 6 team.  who knows?  lindholm had to take whatever deal (and is a better player).

i just dont think the wings should be selling the farm just yet.  if edvinsson or mazur or cossa hit and the team turns the corner next year, then we can think about dealing a first in 2025.

[buddha]

Just now, 1984Echoes said:

It's not personal.

I just think you're jerking me around.

You replaced a low-level prospect with an NHL'er in your "equivalent" trade.

Why did you do that?

joe veleno was a low level prospect who is a bottom six plugger in the nhl.  he's a depth piece who was a low level prospect.  if anything i UNDERSOLD kuzmenko in comparing him to fabbri.

[lordstanley]

12 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

  Kuzmenko is still a really good piece in the trade even if he's "underachieving" right now, 95 points in 124 NHL games so far in his career.  He just didn't seem to fit with Rick Tochett.  

Exactly. He has been a mystery case all season and I think is a perfect candidate to be revitalized with a new team and city.

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

It's not personal.

I just think you're jerking me around.

You replaced a low-level prospect with an NHL'er in your "equivalent" trade.

Why did you do that?

here's the information i used when i was trying to think about how that trade matched up with the wings:

"Calgary did well too. A first-rounder in 2024. A conditional fourth-rounder in 2024. Plus, two prospects, both of them intriguing, probably Brzustewicz more so than Jurmo, and then Kuzmenko, the most visible and thus known product, who is suffering through a mediocre second NHL season after a very good NHL debut....

Conroy also made it clear that he would happily take prospects over draft picks and that’s what Brzustewicz looks like. Drafted 75th last June, in the third round of the 2023 draft, the 19-year-old has 69 points in 47 games for OHL Kitchener this year, spectacular numbers for a right-shot defenseman. You don’t have to watch Calgary for too long these days to understand its crying need for someone to quarterback the power play.

In theory, that’s what Brzustewicz will ultimately become. Jurmo was a third-rounder, chosen in 2020 and currently playing in Finland, who is a big body — 6-foot-3, 207 pounds."

that's from the athletic.

from the hockey news:

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/analysis/vancouver-canucks-top-10-prospects-january-2024-edition

"3. Hunter Brzustewicz- Kitchener Rangers, OHL

RD- 6'0", 190 lbs- Round 3, 75th overall in 2023

Hunter Brzustewicz is having a season to remember. The Kitchener Rangers defender leads all players in the OHL with 58 points in 37 games and is on the path to becoming just the 15th defender in OHL history to surpass the 100-point mark in a season. One of the CHL's most dynamic defencemen, he is the mid-season favourite to be named CHL Defenceman of the Year. "

that's how i came up with the trade parameters.  it wasnt some devious machination to insult you.

[1984Echoes]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

joe veleno was a low level prospect who is a bottom six plugger in the nhl.  he's a depth piece who was a low level prospect.  if anything i UNDERSOLD kuzmenko in comparing him to fabbri.

But you included BOTH Veleno & Fabbri, replacing a low-level prospect with one of them...

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

But you included BOTH Veleno & Fabbri, replacing a low-level prospect with one of them...

kuzmenko is 27 years old and scored 39 goals last year.  i replaced him with fabbri.  

do you think fabbri is the equivalent of someone who scored 39 goals in one season?

who would you replace him with?

[1984Echoes]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

here's the information i used when i was trying to think about how that trade matched up with the wings:

"Calgary did well too. A first-rounder in 2024. A conditional fourth-rounder in 2024. Plus, two prospects, both of them intriguing, probably Brzustewicz more so than Jurmo, and then Kuzmenko, the most visible and thus known product, who is suffering through a mediocre second NHL season after a very good NHL debut....

Conroy also made it clear that he would happily take prospects over draft picks...

Hunter Brzustewicz is having a season to remember. The Kitchener Rangers defender leads all players in the OHL with 58 points in 37 games and is on the path to becoming just the 15th defender in OHL history to surpass the 100-point mark in a season...

Fine: The Canucks gain this trade because they'll include Brzustewicz and Yzerman will NOT trade Pellikka... and they had Kuzmenko and we can only counter with Fabbri or Berggren (I don't think he lets go of Veleno just yet...).

 

My point remains the same: If we trade for a Lindholm (and MUST get him with an agreed-upon extension) then it makes other guys expendable. Same with Hanifan.

IE: Who would I love to MOST pair up with Seider? It's not Chiarot, or Walman, or Ghost, or Maatta, or Edvinsson, or Wallinder, or Albert Johansson. It's Hanifan. IMO: (A) That creates the strongest playoff-quality top pairing for this year and at least the next (6 or 7?) (B) Who do I want as my 3 LH'ed D-men (and I'll add a 4th for depth)? Hanifan, Edvinsson, Walman, and 1 of Maatta or Johansson. That makes everyone else expendable, in my mind. It's why I'm willing to trade players/ prospects.  

I'm looking for the strongest team long-term, not just this year.

[1984Echoes]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

kuzmenko is 27 years old and scored 39 goals last year.  i replaced him with fabbri.  

do you think fabbri is the equivalent of someone who scored 39 goals in one season?

who would you replace him with?

Great, replace Kuzmenko with Fabbri.

But you included BOTH Veleno and Fabbri.

You seem to be avoiding my question: why did you include BOTH?

If Fabbri replaces Kuzmenko, who does Veleno replace... the low-level prospect?

[1984Echoes]

You're doing the same thing when you said I was willing to offer NOTHING in a trade.

You're exaggerating.

It's annoying at best...

And it gets to my point that it appears you're just jerking me around.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

Great, replace Kuzmenko with Fabbri.

But you included BOTH Veleno and Fabbri.

You seem to be avoiding my question: why did you include BOTH?

If Fabbri replaces Kuzmenko, who does Veleno replace... the low-level prospect?

i included veleno because he was the equivalent what i would expect from a low level prospect.  

fabbri isnt close to kuznetsov but the wings dont have anyone who fits that profile as a goal scorer who is a bit older and is having a down season.  

the point being, if i oversold veleno then i undersold kuznetsov.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said:

You're doing the same thing when you said I was willing to offer NOTHING in a trade.

You're exaggerating.

It's annoying at best...

And it gets to my point that it appears you're just jerking me around.

youre taking this way too seriously.

i ask you again: who on the wings is equivalent to kuznetsov?  39 goals last year.

[buddha]

and remember, the wings have to BEAT the vancouver deal.

the wings' first round pick will be better, but they have to beat the "best offensive defenseman in the ohl" and a guy who scored 39 goals last year and a "low(er) level prospect.

the wings have ONE prospect who matches up with a guy labeled "the best offensive defenseman in the ohl" and that's sandin pelikka.  dont give me any bull**** about buium or wallinder.  buium is still stuck in college and wallinder is not tearing up the ahl.

the wings have no one who matches with kuznetsov.  their best pure goal scorer is debrincat.  sprong is a lesser version of kuznetsov.  debrincat is much more valuable.  sprong isnt valuable enough.

lower level 3rd round pick physical player in the minors?  mazur.  savage.  dylan james?  that's who youre talking about.  

its quite possible the canucks see the wings' system differently.  we'll never know.

[slothfacekilla]

I have to imagine if the Wings wanted to negotiate and have a deal in place for an extension the trade would have been even more expensive, I just don't see the Wings in a place to make the move either way myself.  Adding more Center depth would be nice but I hope they can upgrade Petry or Maata here...

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

I have to imagine if the Wings wanted to negotiate and have a deal in place for an extension the trade would have been even more expensive, I just don't see the Wings in a place to make the move either way myself.  Adding more Center depth would be nice but I hope they can upgrade Petry or Maata here...

edvinsson?  😉

[slothfacekilla]

I would be more than fine parking someone in the press box or AHL for Edvinsson, but I doubt the Wings would ever do it from a player relation standpoint.  We'll see how these after all star break injuries shake out...

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

I would be more than fine parking someone in the press box or AHL for Edvinsson, but I doubt the Wings would ever do it from a player relation standpoint.  We'll see how these after all star break injuries shake out...

It's *almost* like they they don't want to risk him proving he should be here - otherwise the Chiarot injury would have been a perfectly reasonable occasion to give him a little run in Det.