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2/7 10PM EST Detroit Pistons @ Sacramento Kings


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2 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Every year I make a trade deadline thread and every year it is a huge disappointment. So no trade thread this year and we probably land Luka, Hali, and Booker.

youre calling a deadline trade for the former #2 pick in the draft a huge disappointment?  lol.

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Really fun game. pistons were in it all the way and even managed to close it out. 
 

Ivey with 37, including 19 in the 4th.

Imagine taking 40 games to figure out he needs to play over Killian. This coach is a train wreck, but he won’t get fired because the owner overruled the GM to hire him and then spent the summer patting himself on the back for it.  
 

Edit after watching the postgame: Monty says nothing about Ivey’s career night on the postgame, but calls out multiple other players for playing well. This is a running theme with Monty’s pressers. Goes out of his way to nitpick Ivey or say nothing, even when Jaden has a good game. Tonight he scored 37 and carried the team in the 4th. There’s a serious problem with this coach and his attitude towards Ivey. 

Edited by Betrayer
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8 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Really fun game. pistons were in it all the way and even managed to close it out. 
 

Ivey with 37, including 19 in the 4th.

Imagine taking 40 games to figure out he needs to play over Killian. This coach is a train wreck, but he won’t get fired because the owner overruled the GM to hire him and then spent the summer patting himself on the back for it.  
 

Edit after watching the postgame: Monty says nothing about Ivey’s career night on the postgame, but calls out multiple other players for playing well. This is a running theme with Monty’s pressers. Goes out of his way to nitpick Ivey or say nothing, even when Jaden has a good game. Tonight he scored 37 and carried the team in the 4th. There’s a serious problem with this coach and his attitude towards Ivey. 

every time ivey plays well it makes monty look stupid.

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I'll say it again, the Pistons have looked better without Cade and it's a growing sample size of this. The offense flows a lot better without him and with Ivey and then Sasser at the control.

I blame Monty not Cade for this btw. Once Monty stops deploying Cade as if he's Luka, he and the Pistons will be better off for it. Cade's role is likely to be best maximized off ball as a secondary ballhandler. He's just not a good enough decision maker/playmaker to offset the lack of athleticism, to go along with a mediocre 3 point shot.

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They definitely have been playing better the past month or so and maybe not having Cade is part of that but I also just think they are progressing back to their mean. 

Like as bad as the team is they weren't worst team in the history of team sports bad like they were playing so now they are starting to find their true level which is merely "just" being your run of the mill bottom 5 team. 

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1 hour ago, NYLion said:

I'll say it again, the Pistons have looked better without Cade and it's a growing sample size of this. The offense flows a lot better without him and with Ivey and then Sasser at the control.

I blame Monty not Cade for this btw. Once Monty stops deploying Cade as if he's Luka, he and the Pistons will be better off for it. Cade's role is likely to be best maximized off ball as a secondary ballhandler. He's just not a good enough decision maker/playmaker to offset the lack of athleticism, to go along with a mediocre 3 point shot.

Could well be. Ivey certainly not likely to produce like this in a game *with* Cade in the current set-up. But by the next time they play they will have shuffled a bunch of pieces so maybe the whole set-up changes.

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59 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

They definitely have been playing better the past month or so and maybe not having Cade is part of that but I also just think they are progressing back to their mean. 

Like as bad as the team is they weren't worst team in the history of team sports bad like they were playing so now they are starting to find their true level which is merely "just" being your run of the mill bottom 5 team. 

I've been saying this for at least the past year: Ivey should be the primary and Cade the secondary.

The key thing to me is: if the defense collapses on Ivey as he drives, and he kicks it out to Cade... what is Cade looking at? A somewhat broken down defense? I think Cade thrives BIGLY after Ivey breaks down a defense... IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

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Just now, 1984Echoes said:

I've been saying this for at least the past year: Ivey should be the primary and Cade the secondary.

The key thing to me is: if the defense collapses on Ivey as he drives, and he kicks it out to Cade... what is Cade looking at? A somewhat broken down defense? I think Cade thrives BIGLY after Ivey breaks down a defense... IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

True - Cade can get hemmed in as the primary ball carrier. Once that happens nothing good often happens. 

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8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

True - Cade can get hemmed in as the primary ball carrier. Once that happens nothing good often happens. 

Which is why Ivey should break down the defense first.

I think that opens up Cade in a big way... instead of getting hemmed in as you say.. And to your point... that probably reduces Cade's turnovers ("nothing good"...) significantly, if he's facing broken defenses versus double/triple-teams. And should open his passing lanes too, if he wants to go that route (or the play design does...). Again, another way to reduce his turnovers.

Just my 2 cents.

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Well I don't think Ivey needs to be a Jason Kidd-passing wizard...

He only needs to be able to pass out of a double-team when he drives & dishes...

The out of control is probably not great...

And maybe "primary" is not the correct term for what I am thinking. Less of a "primary" and more like a "break down artist". There are different ways that Ivey can get the defense moving and once that happens, as long as he can pass out of double teams and the ball gets into Cade's hands, I think Cade has better options once the defense is moving...

Edited by 1984Echoes
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The other thing is the pacing. They play a faster game when Ivey has the ball. Aside from all scheme and strategy differences, faster gives the other team less time to do whatever they are trying to do. I don't know how you keep that pace with the ball in Cade's hands, he just doesn't move at Ivey's speed. Now if the Pistons were an all 'round precision kind of team, maybe they can break down other teams without the speed, but right now I think the speed helps. 

And so it goes back to whether the FO actually has some kind of consistent vision of what kind of team they are trying to build and a workable plan how to get there.

Edited by gehringer_2
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1 hour ago, buddha said:

other teams also double team cade whenever he has the ball, ivey not so much.

yet.

and yet that's just what you want to get to: a situation where the defense has to choose between two players they both 'need' to double. All you need is a coach who can put it together.....oh, wait...well....

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4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

... And maybe "primary" is not the correct term for what I am thinking. Less of a "primary" and more like a "break down artist"...

I think I am going to settle on:

"Initiator".

I don't want Ivey to be a ball-dominant PG... and as buddha points out he's not a great passer, etc... But what I want him to do is to "initiate" the offense by attacking defenses trying to break them down. Not on every play of course because teams will adapt to repetitive play. Whether it's initiated from transition (as G2 says, dude is fast), or pick-n-rolls, etc... His speed helps... 

Jalen "The Initiator" Ivey.

Book it.

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I think Ivey plays less out of control recently than he has in the past.  I think he allowed his speed to get him into bad position too often before, maybe try and get to area or take a shot when it wasn’t there, forcing the issue.  I don’t he does that as often, I think he’s been more judicious about using that speed, whether in quick bursts, or down the court.

Cunningham has improved his 3FG% this season.  He’s still a bit below league average, but it is improving.  So, if he plays off of the ball a bit more, perhaps he can help space the floor as well and open up the lane for Duren in the post or the ball handler to drive.

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