casimir Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 39 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: It's a shame that when Ibanez comes off rehab they are probably going to send him back to Toledo. Parker is too big an asset in CF and has been hitting the ball better than his results this series, and I'm going to guess the commitment to Keith is strong enough he'll get more run. Or they could surprise me and decide to ride a hot hand.... Is Kennedy out of options? I would think he gets the Hens hat when Ibanez comes back. Ibanez could factor into the 2B/3B mix without upsetting the OF apple cart much at all right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 1 minute ago, SoCalTiger said: I think its bye bye Buddy and Wencel stays... Concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 44 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Agreed. Especially with how well their pitching is doing. It was encouraging to see Meadows use the opposite field. Going the other way or bunting can get players out of a slump, sometimes. I've been waiting for Meadows to lay down a bunt, use his natural speed. The problem is nobody bunts. We saw Vierling try it earlier this season. Complete failure. I doubt Meadows, or anyone, has done much bunting in the minors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 5 minutes ago, casimir said: Is Kennedy out of options? I would think he gets the Hens hat when Ibanez comes back. Ibanez could factor into the 2B/3B mix without upsetting the OF apple cart much at all right now. According to Edman's spreadsheet, Kennedy has one option. Urshela will also be coming back at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 If Keith still isn't hitting .200 when Urshela returns then it's going to be tune up time unless Perez has returned to earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 I think Keith should be sent down but that doesn't mean he's a failure. I'm pleasantly surprised by his defense and he absolutely will hit. This is an evaluation year but that can apply to the journeymen types as well. Why not play Canha, Urshela, Kennedy, etc. now and possibly gain something at the deadline? Keith or Meadows or even Torkelson going to Toledo doesn't make them busts. It just means they have adjustments to make and it's easier to do that when the games don't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 50 minutes ago, casimir said: Is Kennedy out of options? I would think he gets the Hens hat when Ibanez comes back. Ibanez could factor into the 2B/3B mix without upsetting the OF apple cart much at all right now. Damn - forgot about Kennedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 1 hour ago, casimir said: Is Kennedy out of options? I would think he gets the Hens hat when Ibanez comes back. Ibanez could factor into the 2B/3B mix without upsetting the OF apple cart much at all right now. The first error Perez makes in the OF will have posters calling for his head. 😅😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: The first error Perez makes in the OF will have posters calling for his head. 😅😅 He’s already had an error. It was one of his first games with Detroit. He was in RF and Meadows was in CF. There was a fly ball between them, Meadows was calling for it but yielded to Perez. Neither caught it, multibase error to Perez. I remember noting how most of Perez’ OF experience was in CF and questioned if they were both calling for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said: If Keith still isn't hitting .200 when Urshela returns then it's going to be tune up time unless Perez has returned to earth. 51 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: I think Keith should be sent down but that doesn't mean he's a failure. I'm pleasantly surprised by his defense and he absolutely will hit. This is an evaluation year but that can apply to the journeymen types as well. Why not play Canha, Urshela, Kennedy, etc. now and possibly gain something at the deadline? Keith or Meadows or even Torkelson going to Toledo doesn't make them busts. It just means they have adjustments to make and it's easier to do that when the games don't count. I don’t know when Urshela is due back. Things could be different by then. To me, Meadows looks more lost at the plate but has been the better asset on defense. Perez has been playing and they’ve used him in CF a bit. So they could cover CF with Perez and Vierling with Urshela (and Vierling) at 3B and Keith and Ibanez at 2B. If they send Keith down, that’s Meadows and probably a little Vierling in CF, Vierling and Urshela at 3B, Ibanez and McKinstry at 2B. Urshela hasn’t played much 2B, but maybe it wouldn’t be tough for him? I don’t know, it seems like the playing time and depth charts are more amenable to keeping Keith, but again, what will things look like when Urshela is ready to return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, casimir said: He’s already had an error. It was one of his first games with Detroit. He was in RF and Meadows was in CF. There was a fly ball between them, Meadows was calling for it but yielded to Perez. Neither caught it, multibase error to Perez. I remember noting how most of Perez’ OF experience was in CF and questioned if they were both calling for it. I didn't know they gave him an error on that play. I remember thinking it was Meadows fault, a CF is supposed to take charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 40 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: I didn't know they gave him an error on that play. I remember thinking it was Meadows fault, a CF is supposed to take charge. Well, he did pull off and avoid a collision. So there’s that bit of positive. I don’t know, I only saw it on TV. Perez didn’t yield even though you could see Meadows calling it. Did Perez hear Meadows and forget who was the CF? Was Meadows not loud enough for Perez to hear? Tough to know for sure. The CF is supposed to take charge, but if the communication doesn’t work out, how do we know for certain where the breakdown was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 38 minutes ago, casimir said: Well, he did pull off and avoid a collision. So there’s that bit of positive. I don’t know, I only saw it on TV. Perez didn’t yield even though you could see Meadows calling it. Did Perez hear Meadows and forget who was the CF? Was Meadows not loud enough for Perez to hear? Tough to know for sure. The CF is supposed to take charge, but if the communication doesn’t work out, how do we know for certain where the breakdown was? It was classic unfamiliarity. Parker yielded, but Perez didn't know he had - at least not for sure. Whatever the signal was for "you take it" doesn't exist, wasn't established, known, heard, between them, and hearing footsteps he went gun shy at the last second. I could be quite wrong, but from watching games over the years, I've never noted much evidence that MLB players, ever, or often, counter call a ball - i.e. call to the other player to take a catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 Just speculating with actually going back and looking, maybe the ball was more in Perez’s area than it was in Meadows’ so he had a better shot, but Meadows was big-timing as the CF, and Perez stayed with it because it was his by proximity, but Meadows insisted, and at the last second Perez pulled off, and it dropped. That’s one way it could have happened, again, without actually searching for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 26 minutes ago, chasfh said: Just speculating with actually going back and looking, maybe the ball was more in Perez’s area than it was in Meadows’ so he had a better shot, but Meadows was big-timing as the CF, and Perez stayed with it because it was his by proximity, but Meadows insisted, and at the last second Perez pulled off, and it dropped. That’s one way it could have happened, again, without actually searching for it. I though in the video it's pretty clear Parker had stopped calling and had given way, Perez just didn't know it. To the larger question, it doesn't matter if a ball is closer to the side fielder, if the CF calls it the corner is still supposed to get out of the way. Edited April 29 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 The easy answer is they just messed up, or someone messed up. It happens. Everybody knows the protocol but the game moves fast, adrenaline is high, and sometimes you just do the wrong thing or don't do what you are supposed to do. I'm sure they reviewed the play and figured out what happened. They're smart people. As a player I hated it when I messed up and then had others telling me precisely what I already know. I even hate that today. Could be something as forgetting to set the timer when cooking something and realizing I screwed up and then inevitably you hear "You should have set the timer...." "Yeah, no **** asshole" 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 31 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I thought in the video it's pretty clear Parker had stopped calling and had given way, Perez just didn't know it. To the larger question, it doesn't matter if a ball is closer to the side fielder, if the CF calls it the corner is still supposed to get out of the way. O’re definitely right on paper, although I have personally experienced playing left field with a ball hit almost exactly to me and the center field yelling he got it. I shouted back no no it’s mine and I definitely did not get out of the way. So I can see something like that happening in the bigs, and I can definitely support the corner outfielder holding his ground under such a specific circumstance. Again I haven’t relooked at this play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 19 minutes ago, oblong said: As a player I hated it when I messed up and then had others telling me precisely what I already know. I even hate that today. Could be something as forgetting to set the timer when cooking something and realizing I screwed up and then inevitably you hear "You should have set the timer...." "Yeah, no **** asshole" And then after you answer “yeah I know”, they invariably reply, “so why didn’t you do it??” And you wanna answer, “because I’m ****ing human and I made a ****ing mistake. Do I really need to defend that?!” But you don’t, because it just doesn’t matter, and you just want it to be done with already. But it’ll still bother you for a few hours. Then you’re over it, and everything resets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 20 minutes ago, chasfh said: And then after you answer “yeah I know”, they invariably reply, “so why didn’t you do it??” And you wanna answer, “because I’m ****ing human and I made a ****ing mistake. Do I really need to defend that?!” But you don’t, because it just doesn’t matter, and you just want it to be done with already. But it’ll still bother you for a few hours. Then you’re over it, and everything resets. Outfield communication is sort of a hole in the way baseball players train. The IF warms-up together as an IF. OFs mostly warm-up/practice shagging BP, but in my experience they aren't in their set playing positions and they are generally just be taking turns instead of working on their team work. So if two guys didn't play next to each other in ST, they don't have much an idea how they call, what each other they sound like, what their tendencies are. Which goes back to my original contention, Wenceel made the mistake - that is without question. If Parker calls it his only job is to get out of the way and backup - period. But that said, it's simply asking too much to expect communication to be effective between two people who may be totally unfamiliar with each other. It was a coaching decision to create a situation with a high probability of failure. Now it may have been a totally justified coaching decision based on who was available to play where, but you still have to cut the players some slack - they were put in a position to fail. Again, maybe that was necessary, but it does move a big part of the responsibility for the outcome off their shoulders. Edited April 29 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, chasfh said: O’re definitely right on paper, although I have personally experienced playing left field with a ball hit almost exactly to me and the center field yelling he got it. I shouted back no no it’s mine and I definitely did not get out of the way. So I can see something like that happening in the bigs, and I can definitely support the corner outfielder holding his ground under such a specific circumstance. Again I haven’t relooked at this play. In HS, we had a pretty good team when I was a sophmore. We were ranked in the top 10 for a while. Favored to win districts. In a playoff game, I was playing LF. It was a windy day. On 3 occassions in that game that very thing happened. In one situation I had to move to my right. He came running over flailing about and each time the ball dropped. It was the kind of play you don't even think of calling as a LFer because it's right to you. We lost by 2 runs. Of course he was a senior and I was a sophmore so..... and by that point he'd already walked in graduation so what's the point in complaining. And then next year we got put into the same district bracket as a very good school so that ended our playoff hopes for my modest HS baseball career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 4 hours ago, chasfh said: O’re definitely right on paper, although I have personally experienced playing left field with a ball hit almost exactly to me and the center field yelling he got it. I shouted back no no it’s mine and I definitely did not get out of the way. So I can see something like that happening in the bigs, and I can definitely support the corner outfielder holding his ground under such a specific circumstance. Again I haven’t relooked at this play. If you have a center fielder that is an idiot, it's coaching's responsibility to break him of his idiocy or not play him there, but if the OF is going to work smoothly the CF should make the call and the his corners should listen to him. Again - coaching. If the coach has an undisciplined low IQ player out there running over people, he has put his players in a position to fail and eventually there will be an error or worse a collision and injury but I'm not going to blame that all on the players. There are enough plays where no-one can make a call that are dangerous enough (Back in the day I had one pretty hard collision with a guy next to me on one one of those! - neither of us knew if we could get there - ankle sprain for me, worse for him), but it should never happen on a easy catch for either player like the one in question. and of course, if you are getting a lot of overlap on garden variety fly ball, take advantage and move your corners outward! Edited April 29 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: If you have a center fielder that is an idiot, it's coaching's responsibility to break him of his idiocy or not play him there, but if the OF is going to work smoothly the CF should make the call and the his corners should listen to him. Again - coaching. If the coach has an undisciplined low IQ player out there running over people, he has put his players in a position to fail and eventually there will be an error or worse a collision and injury but I'm not going to blame that all on the players. There are enough plays where no-one can make a call that are dangerous enough (Back in the day I had one pretty hard collision with a guy next to me on one one of those! - neither of us knew if we could get there - ankle sprain for me, worse for him), but it should never happen on a easy catch for either player like the one in question. and of course, if you are getting a lot of overlap on garden variety fly ball, take advantage and move your corners outward! Remote control shock collars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 14 minutes ago, casimir said: Remote control shock collars? Works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 On 4/28/2024 at 5:28 PM, 1984Echoes said: Coulda been me. I've been high on him since we signed him back in 2017-ish. It was Avila's first foray into spending decent international money instead of "spreading smaller amounts" around. That was probably part of it... it was $500K IIRC. But it was also that he was supposed to have a very high hit tool and really good speed and was projected to have some power (not much, but better than zero) for a middle infielder. And I was getting tired of the Rey Rivera's that Avila was drafting at the time. He showed the hit tool right away and looked like a decent prospect with a decent chance but... Struggled in Low-A in 2019, pandemic so nothing in 2020, and was "meh" coming back in 2021, low and high A. But he broke out in 2022 with a .900+ OPS in high-A and Erie... so I started chirping about him again. A bit loudly. Glad to see he's made it to The Show and let's see what he can do...! No, it wasn't you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 5 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: No, it wasn't you Yup, here it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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