LOCKOUT '22: When will we see baseball again?

[Motor City Sonics]

Lockout has started today.   Not a lot of encouraging signs right now, but it's early.    

[oblong]

go to mlb.com and it's a ghosttown.  All generic stories you would find on some website that is hosted on geocities and not updated since 2001.  The team sites have no player pictures anymore.

 

You can still buy season tickets though!

 

 

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, oblong said:

go to mlb.com and it's a ghosttown.  All generic stories you would find on some website that is hosted on geocities and not updated since 2001.  The team sites have no player pictures anymore.

 

You can still buy season tickets though!

 

 

It's the digital equivalent of a Potemkim village. Everything is fine here, move along....

[oblong]

Yesterday:

PLEASE WELCOME JAVY BAEZ!  HAPPY BIRTHDAY JAVY

Today:

never heard of him

 

[Tiger337]

There has never been a strike or lockout during the social media era.  This is going to get brutal if it cause games to be missed.  It might actually pressure them to get things done faster.  

[Longgone]

This could be a tough one for this reason; yes, it's the owners who have locked the players out, but this one is on the players. Normally negotiations are two sided, one side makes concessions to gain a benefit. In this case the players have many significant demands, while the owners really don't want much to change. They'd like expanded playoffs, but that isn't something the players really oppose. So with significant demands and few concessions to give on the player side, where is the ability to fairly negotiate any appreciable changes?

Edited December 2, 2021 by Longgone

[oblong]

Did the players walk away from the bargaining table?

There was no reason they had to do a lockout.  They're creating the impasse.

 

[Longgone]

4 minutes ago, oblong said:

Did the players walk away from the bargaining table?

There was no reason they had to do a lockout.  They're creating the impasse.

 

I think there is a reasonable rationale for the lockout, but I'm not talking about strategy, or who's right or wrong, just that the negotiating position of the players makes this hard for them to gain any major concessions, which may make this difficult to resolve.

[Longgone]

14 minutes ago, oblong said:

Did the players walk away from the bargaining table?

There was no reason they had to do a lockout.  They're creating the impasse.

 

And no one has yet walked away from the table, there is no impasse. 

[casimir]

Today is Opening Day in my OOTP online league, so hey, I got baseball.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

You can still buy season tickets though!

I wonder what access to Zoom negotiation calls could sell for?

[chasfh]

I’m guessing there are no player pictures on the MLB.com website because they have to license their use from the MLBPA.

[oblong]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’m guessing there are no player pictures on the MLB.com website because they have to license their use from the MLBPA.

yes...

 

although the Fox Theater tweeted this:

 

[oblong]

24 minutes ago, Longgone said:

I think there is a reasonable rationale for the lockout, but I'm not talking about strategy, or who's right or wrong, just that the negotiating position of the players makes this hard for them to gain any major concessions, which may make this difficult to resolve.

what's the rationale?  There is none.  Your take is like a guy pointing a guy at another's head and saying "Well he's being unreasonable" to the guy he's pointing the gun at.

Revenues are up and player's salaries are down.  MLB can't cry foul to the degree that they need to pull this stunt now.  Manfred has no credibility.

 

[chasfh]

If only the players would shut up and take what the owners decide to give them, this would not be difficult to resolve.

[Tiger337]

I don't feel bad for either side, but I am on the labor side.  I despise Manfred and don't trust the owners.  They are all making a fortune and the players (who are the product) want a bigger piece.   Also Manfred sucks.  

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

Yesterday:

PLEASE WELCOME JAVY BAEZ!  HAPPY BIRTHDAY JAVY

Today:

never heard of him

 

[Edman85]

No way they miss games, but both sides seem to have their heels dug in.

[Longgone]

8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't feel bad for either side, but I am on the labor side.  I despise Manfred and don't trust the owners.  They are all making a fortune and the players (who are the product) want a bigger piece.   Also Manfred sucks.  

No doubt, however, the point is, they haven't much leverage, but a lot of issues, which doesn't bode well.

[mtutiger]

10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't feel bad for either side, but I am on the labor side.  I despise Manfred and don't trust the owners.  They are all making a fortune and the players (who are the product) want a bigger piece.   Also Manfred sucks.  

Definitely on labor's side here... there seems to be a growing chasm between the elite players and those who are mid-level ballplayers and I understand the frustration.

In terms of the length, it probably takes out pat of Spring Training but games will start on time. I have a hard time believing, in the day and age of social media, that this league wants the black eye of missing games. 

But then again, with Manfred in charge.... lol

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't feel bad for either side, but I am on the labor side.  I despise Manfred and don't trust the owners.  They are all making a fortune and the players (who are the product) want a bigger piece.   Also Manfred sucks.  

Outside of the top three or four dozen players and pre-arb minimum makers, the middle and lowest tier of established players are making far less than they did even a decade ago.

Teams tax themselves for spending too much, but do not penalize themselves for spending too little.

Baseball has also supercharged its revenue haul from non-gameday sources, such as MLBAM, broadcast rights, and agreements with gambling behemoths, of which the players take is zero.

These are very large barrels that Baseball has the players over. I don’t know any issue on which the players have the owners over a barrel.

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

Did the players walk away from the bargaining table?

 

My understanding is that they didn't walk away, but instead stonewalled.  If they refuse to budge on any issue and just layout the demands it's kinda the equivalent of walking away.

I do totally agree that the owners are trying to make an appearance of more urgency via the lockout, but at least from what little I've read it seems like the owners have agreed to negotiate on some things while the players have said "Here's what we want, we'll sign when and only when you agree to all of it. We're not willing to negotiate."

[Edman85]

I just learned this week Dick Monfort is who the owners have as lead negotiator.

The labor strife makes sense.

[HeyAbbott]

I think most fans are overly optimistic . The CBA will take a long time to hammer out. The players want their share of the revenue to be at a minimum 50 percent of total revenue. If their percentage of the revenue  were in line with other leagues, it would be much higher if I recall the numbers correctly.  Manfred is a self centered Jack Ass on his best days.

 

[Longgone]

17 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If only the players would shut up and take what the owners decide to give them, this would not be difficult to resolve.

Negotiations are two sided, it is not intended for one side to make demands without reciprocity. In this case the players have many demands, the owners few. Makes it difficult.