2025 MLB Thread

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't even miss the peak years of that team.  It was fun, but this team is more fun

Exactly. The winning was fine as far as it went, although that was never all the way to a ring. None of those teams were even the best in the league in any given year, despite breathless preseason predictions by Harold Reynolds and ****face Ripken on that knucklehead network that we would win the whole thing because, I mean, come on! Miggy! And JV! And Leyland! I mean, come on!

But underneath it all, we always suspected we were looking at the emperor’s new clothes the whole time. After all, the 2012 World Series team had the seventh best record (and seventh-best pythag!) in the league. That’s a pretty telling results-based snapshot of that whole period, right there.

[oblong]

28 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Exactly. The winning was fine as far as it went, although that was never all the way to a ring. None of those teams were even the best in the league in any given year, despite breathless preseason predictions by Harold Reynolds and ****face Ripken on that knucklehead network that we would win the whole thing because, I mean, come on! Miggy! And JV! And Leyland! I mean, come on!

But underneath it all, we always suspected we were looking at the emperor’s new clothes the whole time. After all, the 2012 World Series team had the seventh best record (and seventh-best pythag!) in the league. That’s a pretty telling results-based snapshot of that whole period, right there.

they never had home field advantage in the playoffs, other than the 2006 WS which wasn't based on record. That means teams like Oakland and Baltimore had better records.

In 2012 they won 88 games.  They were tied with the White Sox when we left our final home game on a Tuesday night before a road trip.  The Sox went in a spiral and we finished 3 games up on them.

 

[romad1]

I definitely enjoyed the 2006-2013 era.  I think building on the basis that Hinch and Harris have is smarter for the Detroit market.  I hope they can retain their free agents as well as construct a durable skill-development system.  

[IdahoBert]

57 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't even miss the peak years of that team.  It was fun, but this team is more fun

This team is absolutely more fun. During the peak years it just seemed that an assembly of individuals were send out to play the game. Now we have a team full of highly trained ninja assassins who can actually run up walls.

[Motown Bombers]

The AJ Hinch Tigers have yet to win as many games as the worst playoff season of those Tigers teams. Two pennants, four division titles, three straight ALCS appearances, and all of this started three years removed from losing 119 games. Are we being serious here? 

[Motown Bombers]

Since we're ****ting on the 2012 Tigers record, last year's Tigers team wouldn't have made the playoffs in 2012 since MLB expanded the playoffs. 

[ben9753]

I'll always look back fondly on those teams. The only player I think we really went full "Yankees mode" and just outbid everyone in FA was Prince Fielder. JV was drafted. Scherzer we traded for before he was peak. Cabrera was great, but we traded prospects, didn't sign him to a mega deal in FA. then there was the supporting cast, Polanco, Carlos Guillen, Porcello... good times. that team would beat todays team pretty handily I think. the Central was a much stronger division in those years as well.

Edited 21 hours ago by ben9753

[romad1]

5 minutes ago, ben9753 said:

I'll always look back fondly on those teams. The only player I think we really went full "Yankees mode" and just outbid everyone in FA was Prince Fielder. JV was drafted. Scherzer we traded for before he was peak. Cabrera was great, but we traded prospects, didn't sign him to a mega deal in FA. then there was the supporting cast, Polanco, Carlos Guillen, Porcello... good times. that team would beat todays team pretty handily I think. the Central was a much stronger division in those years as well.

That's a testable proposition.  

3B: Inge or Miggy vs. Jung or Vierling or Baez or McKinstry (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers)

1B: Prince or Miggy or Chris Shelton or Sean Casey vs. Tork or Keith (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers

SS:  Jhonny Peralta or Carlos Guillen or Jose Iglesias vs Trey Sweeney or Javier Baez (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers)

2B:  Placido Polanco or Omar Infante vs. Gleyber Torres or Keith (Maybe a push)

Catcher:  Pudge or Alex Avila vs. Dingler or Jake Rogers (Advantage 2006-2013 Tigers on the basis of Pudge's historical value) 

RF:  Dirks or Magglio vs. Kerry Carpenter or McKinstry (Push...I'd take Magglio over Carp but not Dirks over him)

CF:  Austin Jackson or Curtis Granderson vs. Parker Meadows, Javier Baez (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers)

LF:  Marcus Thames or Delmon Young vs Riley Green (advantage current Tigers)

SP:  Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman, Robertson, Maroth or Verlander, Scherzer, Fister, Sanchez, Smiley vs

Skubal, Olson, Mize, Jobe, Flaherty (I mean either iteration of the 2006-2013 seems much stronger although i do like the quality of current rotation a lot). 

RP:  I think this is one area where the current team clearly beats whatever we put out there as a bullpen in 2006-2013.  

[Tiger337]

56 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The AJ Hinch Tigers have yet to win as many games as the worst playoff season of those Tigers teams. Two pennants, four division titles, three straight ALCS appearances, and all of this started three years removed from losing 119 games. Are we being serious here? 

I'm being serious here. I didn't say they were more successful.  They haven't even come close yet.  I like their roster construction and the way they play the game more than the stars and scrubs group.  This team and organization reminds of the team they had in the mid 80s in that they had no stars but a lot of depth and played well in every phase of the game.  I also like that they don't wilt when they have an injury. Hopefully, they can continue developing players and not come to a full stop the way they did back then.   

Edited 20 hours ago by Tiger337

[ben9753]

19 minutes ago, romad1 said:

That's a testable proposition.  

3B: Inge or Miggy vs. Jung or Vierling or Baez or McKinstry (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers)

1B: Prince or Miggy or Chris Shelton or Sean Casey vs. Tork or Keith (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers

SS:  Jhonny Peralta or Carlos Guillen or Jose Iglesias vs Trey Sweeney or Javier Baez (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers)

2B:  Placido Polanco or Omar Infante vs. Gleyber Torres or Keith (Maybe a push)

Catcher:  Pudge or Alex Avila vs. Dingler or Jake Rogers (Advantage 2006-2013 Tigers on the basis of Pudge's historical value) 

RF:  Dirks or Magglio vs. Kerry Carpenter or McKinstry (Push...I'd take Magglio over Carp but not Dirks over him)

CF:  Austin Jackson or Curtis Granderson vs. Parker Meadows, Javier Baez (advantage 2006-2013 Tigers)

LF:  Marcus Thames or Delmon Young vs Riley Green (advantage current Tigers)

SP:  Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman, Robertson, Maroth or Verlander, Scherzer, Fister, Sanchez, Smiley vs

Skubal, Olson, Mize, Jobe, Flaherty (I mean either iteration of the 2006-2013 seems much stronger although i do like the quality of current rotation a lot). 

RP:  I think this is one area where the current team clearly beats whatever we put out there as a bullpen in 2006-2013.  

I’d add manager as an advantage to the current team over Leyland/Ausmus

[romad1]

4 minutes ago, ben9753 said:

I’d add manager as an advantage to the current team over Leyland/Ausmus

Ausmus is not/NOT part of the evaluation period.  

Leyland vs Hinch is an interesting test.  Maybe you have to evaluate based on his staff in which case give it up to Fetter and company who are very strong compared to Leyland’s coaches. 

[Motown Bombers]

My favorite memories of those Tigers teams off the top of my head, most good some bad.

- The Rogers and Bonderman games against the Yankees in the 2006 ALDS
- Ordonez serious clinching walk off
- Multiple Verlander no hitters
- Galaraga perfect game
- Game 163 against Minnesota
- Guillen's 3 AM walk off against the Yankees
- Guillen's HR off Jered Weaver
- Rajai Davis walk off grand slam against Oakland
- Game 5 against the Yankees at Yankee Stadium. Don Kelly hits a HR
- Torii Hunter flipping over the fence at Fenway
- Porcello taking down Youkilis
- JD Martinez pinch hit HR again Chris Sale
- Chris Sale binocular rant
- Scherzer coming out of the bullpen in the playoffs against Oakland and working out of a bases loaded no out jam
- Jhonny Peralta's game 5 HR against Oakland
- Cabrera taking Mariano Rivera deep in back to back games
- Cabrera walking off the field in Kansas City after clinching the Triple Crown
- Don Kelly walk off sac fly against Oakland in the playoffs
- Neifi Perez turning an amazing double play in the 8th to preserve the Verlander no hitter
- The spring of Chris Shelton
- Granderson robbing Grady Sizemore of a walk off HR in a Verlander complete game. Cleveland announcers go "It's gone! No it's not"
- Tigers breaking the backs of the White Sox coming back from down 7 with a 9th inning game tying HR from Raburn and a walk off by Cabrera

That's just off the top of my head from 10-20 years ago. If you weren't entertaining, you weren't trying. 

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

My favorite memories of those Tigers teams off the top of my head, most good some bad.

- The Rogers and Bonderman games against the Yankees in the 2006 ALDS
- Ordonez serious clinching walk off
- Multiple Verlander no hitters
- Galaraga perfect game
- Game 163 against Minnesota
- Guillen's 3 AM walk off against the Yankees
- Guillen's HR off Jered Weaver
- Rajai Davis walk off grand slam against Oakland
- Game 5 against the Yankees at Yankee Stadium. Don Kelly hits a HR
- Torii Hunter flipping over the fence at Fenway
- Porcello taking down Youkilis
- JD Martinez pinch hit HR again Chris Sale
- Chris Sale binocular rant
- Scherzer coming out of the bullpen in the playoffs against Oakland and working out of a bases loaded no out jam
- Jhonny Peralta's game 5 HR against Oakland
- Cabrera taking Mariano Rivera deep in back to back games
- Cabrera walking off the field in Kansas City after clinching the Triple Crown
- Don Kelly walk off sac fly against Oakland in the playoffs
- Neifi Perez turning an amazing double play in the 8th to preserve the Verlander no hitter
- The spring of Chris Shelton
- Granderson robbing Grady Sizemore of a walk off HR in a Verlander complete game. Cleveland announcers go "It's gone! No it's not"
- Tigers breaking the backs of the White Sox coming back from down 7 with a 9th inning game tying HR from Raburn and a walk off by Cabrera

That's just off the top of my head from 10-20 years ago. If you weren't entertaining, you weren't trying. 

They were entertaining.  This team is more my style.  Entertainment is subjective.  

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't even miss the peak years of that team.  It was fun, but this team is more fun

We're gonna see how fun it is this summer when the Tigers keep winning. Comerica is going to be hopping!!

[Motown Bombers]

The 2013 Tigers would smoke this team. They had a rotation that could miss bats except for Fister and they could slug. With more shifting and a staff that doesn't give up a ton of ground balls, they could hide the bad defense a little more. With teams substituting more than before, you could sit Peralta when Fister or Porcello pitched in favor of Iglesias. 

[romad1]

The 2006-2013 era had many amazing moments.  This team is a notch above on aggression and headfirst sliding which makes them seem like they have more "moxie" 

[gehringer_2]

46 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Skubal, Olson, Mize, Jobe, Flaherty (I mean either iteration of the 2006-2013 seems much stronger although i do like the quality of current rotation a lot). 

RP:  I think this is one area where the current team clearly beats whatever we put out there as a bullpen in 2006-2013.  

This.

Even when we had Verlander and Scherzer the back of the rotation was never as solid as this staff, and we know if there was one thing Dombrowski didn't commit to, it was relief pitching. DD's plan was always to find one soon to be broken down closer and hope he had a good year left and add him to the closet of misfit toys that was the rest of the pen. 

2013s starting staff was maybe the best, but if you consider it was a bad year for Verlander and Porcello was not that great either it still didn't turn out to be strong 1-5

Edited 20 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Tigeraholic1]

8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

They were entertaining.  This team is more my style.  Entertainment is subjective.  

Yes, this team is fun to watch. Much more my brand of baseball. 

[romad1]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

This.

Even when we had Verlander and Scherzer the back of the rotation was never as solid as this staff, and we know if there was one thing Dombrowski didn't commit to, it was relief pitching. DD's plan was always to find one soon to be broken down closer and hope he had a good year left and add him to the closet of misfit toys that was the rest of the pen. 

Valverde having to throw pitch 30+ in relief quickly burned him out. 

I liked Phil Coke, and enjoy drunk Phil Coke when they do the reunions, but as a closer that was a temporary fix. 

Benoit was a good setup man. 

Zumaya was friggin awesome as a setup man except I attended the one game when he gave up a HR in relief against the Cubs, with all those Cub fans at Comerica...it upset me.  Luckily the Tigers came back and won that game. 

Todd Jones was a heart attack as a closer

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

This.

Even when we had Verlander and Scherzer the back of the rotation was never as solid as this staff, and we know if there was one thing Dombrowski didn't commit to, it was relief pitching. DD's plan was always to find one soon to be broken down closer and hope he had a good year left and add him to the closet of misfit toys that was the rest of the pen. 

That 2013 team had Fister and Porcello at the back of the rotation. Smyly would have been a back end starter on almost any other team. All those started were horses and you didn’t need to go to the bullpen as often. They also had two high end relievers in Smyly and Benoit. They lacked depth. 

[papalawrence]

5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The 2013 Tigers would smoke this team. They had a rotation that could miss bats except for Fister and they could slug. With more shifting and a staff that doesn't give up a ton of ground balls, they could hide the bad defense a little more. With teams substituting more than before, you could sit Peralta when Fister or Porcello pitched in favor of Iglesias. 

I loved that era, and that team certainly had more talent. But I agree with others in that I prefer the current style of play and view it as potentially sustainable. As DD kept adding contracts like Fielder, JV-Miggy-VMart extensions,  etc -- all players who were aging Nd slow on the base paths, I was always aware that there would be a down period of bloated contracts and aging stars. The down period turned out to be much lower than I expected. This culture is different. More aggressive. I loved the JV/Miggy era. I enjoy watching this style of ball more, and I have more hope it will be sustainable 

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The 2013 Tigers would smoke this team. 

They could have smoked the Red Sox too, but they didn't.  

[romad1]

I forgot to add Porcello to the 2006-2013 rotation.  He was very good but was he good because of his supporting cast or not.  I can't tell.  Man certainly accumulated a lot of wins at a young age. 

[Motown Bombers]

7 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

I loved that era, and that team certainly had more talent. But I agree with others in that I prefer the current style of play and view it as potentially sustainable. As DD kept adding contracts like Fielder, JV-Miggy-VMart extensions,  etc -- all players who were aging Nd slow on the base paths, I was always aware that there would be a down period of bloated contracts and aging stars. The down period turned out to be much lower than I expected. This culture is different. More aggressive. I loved the JV/Miggy era. I enjoy watching this style of ball more, and I have more hope it will be sustainable 

The same will happen to this team. Skubal is going to sign a massive contract with the Dodgers or Mets. I doubt they can keep striking gold. That Tigers team had a 10 year window. They were still good in 2016. They won as many games in 2016 as last year's team and would have made the playoffs under today's format. I will be surprised if these Tigers have the same level of sustained success. Only way I see it happening is with the new CBA. 

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, romad1 said:

I forgot to add Porcello to the 2006-2013 rotation.  He was very good but was he good because of his supporting cast or not.  I can't tell.  Man certainly accumulated a lot of wins at a young age. 

I would say his supporting cast hurt him more than helped him since those Tigers teams weren't known for their infield defense. He did go on to win a Cy Young after leaving the Tigers.