2025 Detroit Tigers General Discussion Thread

[tiger2022]

Tarik Skubal's 2025 season will be the greatest season ever by a Detroit Tiger pitcher.

It's shaping up to surpass last season.  

Better than when Verlander won the MVP, better than Scherzer's Cy Young season.  Head and shoulders better than Morris's 84.  

[1984Echoes]

20 hours ago, 4hzglory said:

... It may not sound good, but McGonigle and Clark are going to spend the majority of next season between AA and AAA...

19 hours ago, Graterol said:

I get the importance of the 40 man, but I would rather upgrade SS and would be willing to take the risk of losing Codi Heuer.

19 hours ago, 4hzglory said:

It isn't Codi Heuer per say.  He may already need to come off to protect others.  Edman has the list of who is eligible for the Rule V.  And again, everyone on the 60 day ...

There is a flipside to this.

Come Spring Training 2026, all bets are off.

It doesn't matter if they are on the 40 or not. It doesn't matter who IS on the 40 come ST 2026.

If Clark and McGonigle (one, or both) kick everyone's ass in 2026 ST, and the Org BELIEVES they are ready for MLB...

Then room will be made on the 40. They'll break ST with the Tigers. And... it does NOT have to be at SS and CF.

Gleyber is a FA after 2025, is he not? Who is playing 2B next year? Why not McGonigle? We can still throw out baez at SS until we get a better option...

If Clark is able to make the 26 AND Parker is able to keep CF, Clark can easily shift to Left or Right. What is our best defensive OF in 2026? Who provides the most Offense? What if Calrk actually DOES steal CF in ST 2026?

I'll let Hinch work that out.

But I have ZERO expectations for next Spring Training so whatever happens, happens.

I would just be ready for a mild shocker. With the 40 being ZERO impediment in ST 2026.

Which may not be a shock at all to some...

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

Tarik Skubal's 2025 season will be the greatest season ever by a Detroit Tiger pitcher.

It's shaping up to surpass last season.  

Better than when Verlander won the MVP, better than Scherzer's Cy Young season.  Head and shoulders better than Morris's 84.  

I don't think you can make definitive comparisons across eras with pitchers.  When you compare guys with 200 IP with guys like Newhouser, Lolich and McLain who had close to 30 CG and over 300 IP, It's apples and oranges.  I am not saying those guys were better, just that it was a very different set of circumstances.  You can say that those pitchers couldn't do that in this era where every pitch is thrown with full effort and you'd be right, but if they were confined to 7 inning starts, they would have had much better rates than they did.  The question is which pitcher dominated his own era the most?  I think Skubal, McLain and Verlander and some others were all incredibly dominant in their best seasons.       

[HugoD]

22 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

the theory is that under the pressure of having to produce to keep a spot in the majors, a player won't make the adaptations he needs to learn to make because of the fear that some change might take him backward and he's out of a job. You want to hold guy in the minors until they have had to compensate enough times in enough ways that they have the confidence to do it in the majors. Tork is maybe the poster child for this in that he was reluctant to move away from an approach that got him 30 HR in 2023 even though it was strangling him in 2024. Had he spent another 300-500 AB at AAA learning how to make those adjustment and gaining confidence in his ability to make them, would he have gotten to where he is now faster? That is the $64 question. But who really knows? The fact is that every player is different.

Of course you always have players that are so good they just can't be adequately challenged until they get to the majors - McGonigle and Clark look like they might both be in that category. So in that case you can hold promotion over their head as leverage to make them work on things they don't really have to do to have good minor league numbers but that you demand they do before you will promote them. I think Harris is in that camp. The idea being that for each player there are particular skill milestones and not just counting stats that have to be achieved to define 'readiness' in the Tiger org.

This is a good explanations of the dynamics; much better and more thorough than what I offered up earlier. 🙂

[HugoD]

19 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I’m slowly leaning towards the idea that Riley is just a “good” player and not great.  I don’t know if it’s him selling out for power or something else, but the K rate and whiff rate are bad, the BB rate is not good, his baserunning isn’t impressive, and his defense looks better than it actually is.  
 

He also has been prone to major slumps this year, which he’s able to offset with torrid hot streaks.  I’d just like to see the consistency in his at bats stick throughout most of a season even if it means he’s not hitting 30+ HRs.

 

He has regressed in a lot of categories on baseball savant YoY that is a bit concerning.

I've come to the same conclusion this year.  As you said, he is a good player, just not the superstar some are hoping to see.  Perhaps he will adjust to get more consistency, but I would forecast him to be a .275 hitter, 25 HR and ~.800 OPS, plus an above avg. left fielder.  Nothing wrong with that, but I think he is close to what he will ever be.

[HugoD]

19 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I don't know how you don't keep Melton in the rotation at this point.   Of course they have to limit his innings, but he should remain in the rotation until he shows he's not capable.   Better than some of the other dreck they are trying.    Charlie Morton's done.  Carlie's a high-paid janitor at this point.      Minding his mop............

 

 

I'd need to see another bad outing or so to agree with your take on Morton.  If you look at his las 10 starts or so, his last start was the aberration.  You can't look at his season long numbers.

Edited 21 hours ago by HugoD

[Shinzaki]

1971 Lolich..that was a hell of a season.

[Screwball]

21 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

1971 Lolich..that was a hell of a season.

Without a doubt.  Here is a stat sheet for that year, game by game. Too bad it doesn't include pitch counts for each game (which I consider more important than innings). I was at one of them but don't remember when.

Mickey Lolich 1971 Pitching Logs - Baseball Almanac

[Tiger337]

11 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Without a doubt.  Here is a stat sheet for that year, game by game. Too bad it doesn't include pitch counts for each game (which I consider more important than innings). I was at one of them but don't remember when.

Mickey Lolich 1971 Pitching Logs - Baseball Almanac

He had two games where he threw 13 innings.  It would take about 7 or 8 pitchers to do that today!

No ghost runners in those games either.    

Edited 20 hours ago by Tiger337

[Screwball]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

He had two games where he threw 13 innings.  It would take about 7 or 8 pitchers to do that today!

No ghost runners in those games either.    

We used to stand by where the players came in (of course it was the old Tiger Stadium) and the Mick came in on a motorcycle. I think it was a Kawasaki. He was wearing a green outfit that matched the bike. We heard the club wasn't happy about him riding the bike.

I couldn't get through 13 innings today. They piss me off and I'm usually done by 7 or 8. If they interview a guy who is playing a base while the game is in progress I run it off immediately.  One of the dumbest things I have ever seen. <spit> And I've seen a lot of dumb **** over the last 70 years.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, Screwball said:

We used to stand by where the players came in (of course it was the old Tiger Stadium) and the Mick came in on a motorcycle. I think it was a Kawasaki. He was wearing a green outfit that matched the bike. We heard the club wasn't happy about him riding the bike.

I couldn't get through 13 innings today. They piss me off and I'm usually done by 7 or 8. If they interview a guy who is playing a base while the game is in progress I run it off immediately.  One of the dumbest things I have ever seen. <spit> And I've seen a lot of dumb **** over the last 70 years.

I often turn it off when the ghost runner comes in to the game. That is something I can't get used to.    

[4hzglory]

5 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

I would just be ready for a mild shocker. With the 40 being ZERO impediment in ST 2026.

Which may not be a shock at all to some...

I do agree with this.  By Spring training 40 man spots can easily be opened up as guys can go on the 60 day again 

[Screwball]

3 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I often turn it off when the ghost runner comes in to the game. That is something I can't get used to.    

I think it was a Sunday game with the Phillies when they were interviewing the first basemen. While the game is going on, and if I remember right, a left handed batter at the plate. Don't remember where he was playing, but adding a fudge factor, let's say 110 feet from the plate. Ball gets ripped toward said player with an exit speed of 110 and he has about 3/4 of a second to react.

WTF? Not to mention how utterly stupid this is since there is a baseball game going on. And this dude's basically on the phone.

It could get someone killed and that is a hill I will die on.

[Edman85]

Is this where we vent about stupid takes from Stavenhagen's pod? Scott Harris stock down? Really? Really!?!?!

They said the same thing after last year's deadline because they didn't get enough for Flaherty, apparently. (Granted, Sweeney and Liranzo have fallen off a bit this year but still). They said the same thing when the Tigers signed Torres instead of Christian Walker. They said the same thing after the 2023 draft which now boasts two potential cornerstones.

Every... single... time... the Twitter intelligencia second guesses the Scott Harris front office, every... single... time... the Harris front office gets proven right in the big picture. Those guys need to not get caught up in Twitter groupthink.

[oblong]

groupthink is the right word.  A narrative is born and they read it every day and it becomes fact to them.  Like conspiracy theories, like religion....

When the professional media do it I always wonder if it's because he and his team don't talk like the old guys do.

 

[RatkoVarda]

36 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Is this where we vent about stupid takes from Stavenhagen's pod? Scott Harris stock down? Really? Really!?!?!

They said the same thing after last year's deadline because they didn't get enough for Flaherty, apparently. (Granted, Sweeney and Liranzo have fallen off a bit this year but still). They said the same thing when the Tigers signed Torres instead of Christian Walker. They said the same thing after the 2023 draft which now boasts two potential cornerstones.

Every... single... time... the Twitter intelligencia second guesses the Scott Harris front office, every... single... time... the Harris front office gets proven right in the big picture. Those guys need to not get caught up in Twitter groupthink.

i'm pretty sure the Tigers have "won" every trade they have made since Harris took over. even Malloy for Jimenez still makes sense even though Malloy is unlikely to earn a long term role 

[Edman85]

42 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

i'm pretty sure the Tigers have "won" every trade they have made since Harris took over. even Malloy for Jimenez still makes sense even though Malloy is unlikely to earn a long term role 

Malloy/Jimenez is the one I would say hasn't worked out yet, but even if it doesn't, isn't a big loser. 

Depending how you value international slot money you weren't going to spend, Blake Dickerson has had nothing but injuries since being acquired.

 

[oblong]

what I reject is the baseless charges that he's 'scared' or whatever.  it's a fallacy that's been allowed to grow.

As someone I follow said.... "Nobody's writing Moneyball 2 about an old guy who has lunch with Lynn Henning twice a year".

[RatkoVarda]

37 minutes ago, oblong said:

what I reject is the baseless charges that he's 'scared' or whatever.  it's a fallacy that's been allowed to grow.

As someone I follow said.... "Nobody's writing Moneyball 2 about an old guy who has lunch with Lynn Henning twice a year".

i do not think it is incorrect to say he has avoided moves that have long-term downside risk. his risk appetite, right or wrong, is currently different than Preller or DD. maybe that's just where the Tigers need him to be right now. maybe not.

Clark over Langford and Keith's deal are the only 2 "risky" things he has done, maybe signing Maeda for more than 1 year as well

[oblong]

that doesn't mean he is scared or timid.

If a blackjack player is following a system and the system says "Don't hit on this", it doesn't mean he's risk averse.

[Tiger337]

I think he is risk averse, but being risk averse does not mean being scared.  It's more of a carefully planned strategy where you think a cautious approach will bring more long-term success than taking risks.