Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don’t think Bregman would want to have to hit in Comerica Park 81 games a year for the rest of his life. His career slash line here is .242/.309/.475, which runs 17% below his career average. If he has designs to get into the Hall of Fame—and I don’t see why he wouldn’t—he’ll probably want better back nine stats than that.

Comerica Park would suppress his home runs a bit (which isn't his strength anyway).  I don't see why it would hurt his ability to get hits, draw walks, avoid strikeouts which are his strengths.  He might lose some doubles, but make up for it in triples.  His 110 PA in Comerica don't tell me a lot.  

[oblong]

Unless they already play in Florida or AZ or even CA, I suspect most players 'commute' so the city itself is kind of irrelevant.  Especially those that command the types of salaries a FA would get.  I don't think a city, during the season, matters to them.  They are always working anyway.

[gehringer_2]

53 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

What are property taxes in or around Detroit?

People tend to forget to take into account property as another form of tax.

Property Taxes in New York, New Jersey, and California, for example, are wildly higher than PA/ FL... for example.

I don't know what they are in Texas or Michigan though... for comparison.

prop taxes are high in MI, but sales and income taxes are moderate, so overall MI is not a high tax state, but property taxes are a bitch. That said, there are safety valves for lower income people and retirees that have been in their houses for a long time to help prevent them getting taxed out of their homes. As long as you are in the same home, your prop taxes can't increase faster the lesser of 5% or the inflation rate, regardless of assessments, and there are other circuit breakers for lower income homeowners. If somebody bought my house today, they'd pay ~40 more in prop taxes than I do now as we have been here a longggggg time and assessments in A^2 have risen faster than inflation.

None of which is relevant to ballplayers -🙄- but that's the context.

Edited 18 hours ago by gehringer_2

[buddha]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

just curious were you get that one. Michigan state taxes rank below average and the income tax in Detroit for a suburbanite is all of 1.2%. Not FLA or Tx but cheaper than a lot of places.

so state income taxes is a big deal for some folks.

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

so state income taxes is a big deal for some folks.

as noted, FLA and Tx among MLB states have no IT. So that's an edge for them, but among the rest that do, MI at a flat 4.25% is one of the better ones for high earners.

Funny thing is that business taxes in MI used to be higher than a lot places, and when the GOP was in power in the ~90s or so a lot of taxes got cut. Of course, I'm also old enough to remember when we had good schools and good roads in MI. We have neither now. 

I'm just guessing there might be a connection.

Edited 16 hours ago by gehringer_2

[theroundsquare]

Just now, theroundsquare said:

the solution to these problems is tax cuts

 

[IdahoBert]

3 hours ago, oblong said:

Unless they already play in Florida or AZ or even CA, I suspect most players 'commute' so the city itself is kind of irrelevant.  Especially those that command the types of salaries a FA would get.  I don't think a city, during the season, matters to them.  They are always working anyway.

I’ve always wondered about this. From what I can tell, during the season, these guys don’t have a bushel load of free time that makes living in the city you play for that big of a deal.

If you have a wife and a family and you want to have some semblance of normalcy and be a good husband and a father, does the family live in the city you play for? At least when school is out for the summer?  I’m not sure if this is the norm or not.

And after a night home game, a player might have to psychologically unwind in some manner or other, then get the sleep they need then get the ballpark, from what I’ve read, four or five hours before the game begins. That doesn’t seem conducive to the city you play in being that big of a deal.

And your home city doesn’t mean anything when you’re on the road half the time.

It doesn’t sound like a congenial lifestyle unless you’re a young single man.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

as noted, FLA and Tx among MLB states have no IT. So that's an edge for them, but among the rest that do, MI at a flat 4.25% is one of the better ones for high earners.

Funny thing is that business taxes in MI used to be higher than a lot places, and when the GOP was in power in the ~90s or so a lot of taxes got cut. Of course, I'm also old enough to remember when we had good schools and good roads in MI. We have neither now. 

I'm just guessing there might be a connection.

The auto industry and its feeder industries went through a bit of a downsizing in the late 80s, early 90s. there went your tax base.

remember when Suh left the Lions for the dolphins?  4.5% tax versus 0% tax is a big deal when youre making that kind of money.  

And youre a hockey fan, how many times in the last few years have you heard teams complain about losing free agents to low tax environments like florida or texas or vegas?  tons.

Detroit is not NY, Chicago, or LA where the cultural amenities, nightlife, and business opportunities outweigh tax considerations.  Marginal things like taxes will hurt a destination like detroit.

look, its not like detroit cant get free agents, it just has to overpay to get them or offer a championship window.

Or both.

[chasfh]

6 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Comerica Park would suppress his home runs a bit (which isn't his strength anyway).  I don't see why it would hurt his ability to get hits, draw walks, avoid strikeouts which are his strengths.  He might lose some doubles, but make up for it in triples.  His 110 PA in Comerica don't tell me a lot.  

His 110 PA in Comerica might be telling him a lot. And I don’t know anyone who can hit home runs who would want to go someplace that suppresses his home runs for the rest of his career. But hey, stranger things have happened, I guess.

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

so state income taxes is a big deal for some folks.

Particularly for a guy making $30 million or more a year. The difference between playing in Michigan and playing in Texas would be north of a million a year all by itself.

[chasfh]

6 hours ago, oblong said:

Unless they already play in Florida or AZ or even CA, I suspect most players 'commute' so the city itself is kind of irrelevant.  Especially those that command the types of salaries a FA would get.  I don't think a city, during the season, matters to them.  They are always working anyway.

That’s make sense if all they do after the game is go home and go to bed. Lot of guys like to go out to da club afterwards, and that’s a lot cooler experience for someone in NYC or LA than in Detroit.

Another difference about playing in NYC or LA vs Detroit: a guy like Alex Bregman could move about a lot more inconspicuously in cities teeming with celebrities. If he were to sign up to come to Detroit or a similarly backwater town, he would be the biggest recognizable celebrity in town for several months out of the year.

As for Alex Bregman himself: he is a native of Albuquerque, so I will put a five-spot up against the first person who accept that if he signs a long-term deal, it’ll be for a team west of the Mississippi.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

That’s make sense if all they do after the game is go home and go to bed. Lot of guys like to go out to da club afterwards, and that’s a lot cooler experience for someone in NYC or LA than in Detroit.

Another difference about playing in NYC or LA vs Detroit: a guy like Alex Bregman could move about a lot more inconspicuously in cities teeming with celebrities. If he were to sign up to come to Detroit or a similarly backwater town, he would be the biggest recognizable celebrity in town for several months out of the year.

As for Alex Bregman himself: he is a native of Albuquerque, so I will put a five-spot up against the first person who accept that if he signs a long-term deal, it’ll be for a team west of the Mississippi.

I don’t thjnky baseball players “go out to the club” after games. Maybe in other sports where they don’t play every day they would be more likely.  Of course I had a friend who would shuffle baseballl players from the Ritz Carlton to strip clubs back in the 90s  but I have a feeling that doesn’t happen as much today. Too many people with cameras and the guys are healthier today.   Baseball is a grind. 

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

That’s make sense if all they do after the game is go home and go to bed. Lot of guys like to go out to da club afterwards, and that’s a lot cooler experience for someone in NYC or LA than in Detroit.

Another difference about playing in NYC or LA vs Detroit: a guy like Alex Bregman could move about a lot more inconspicuously in cities teeming with celebrities. If he were to sign up to come to Detroit or a similarly backwater town, he would be the biggest recognizable celebrity in town for several months out of the year.

As for Alex Bregman himself: he is a native of Albuquerque, so I will put a five-spot up against the first person who accept that if he signs a long-term deal, it’ll be for a team west of the Mississippi.

I think it's the opposite. Athletes and celebrities here in Orange County seem totally unbothered because it's not such a rare occurrence to bump into one. 

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

His 110 PA in Comerica might be telling him a lot. And I don’t know anyone who can hit home runs who would want to go someplace that suppresses his home runs for the rest of his career. But hey, stranger things have happened, I guess.

If he is making decisions based on small samples, then I don't want him!

[casimir]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If he is making decisions based on small samples, then I don't want him!

I doubt he’ll be signing for small samples.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

I don’t thjnky baseball players “go out to the club” after games. Maybe in other sports where they don’t play every day they would be more likely.  Of course I had a friend who would shuffle baseballl players from the Ritz Carlton to strip clubs back in the 90s  but I have a feeling that doesn’t happen as much today. Too many people with cameras and the guys are healthier today.   Baseball is a grind. 

counterpoint: miguel cabrera.

i had a friend who owned a pretty popular bar in ferndale.  tigers players would be there all the time.  he told me all kinds of stories about giving guys bottles of this and that.  they'd pound the whole thing and then drive home.  happened all the time.

young, rich, and famous = party all the time.

[buddha]

remember the year the tigers and white sox were battling down the stretch and ozzie came to detroit and took cabrera and the other venezuelan guys out drinking the night before?  cabrera played like ass and the tigers lost.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

remember the year the tigers and white sox were battling down the stretch and ozzie came to detroit and took cabrera and the other venezuelan guys out drinking the night before?  cabrera played like ass and the tigers lost.

Then there was that time Cabrera got drunk in a bar in Florida, got thrown out and later got stopped for drunk driving.  Then they had to let it go, because the cops bragged about how they nailed a famous athlete.  

[Jason_R]

 

It sure seems like Skubal is asking the Tigers not to trade him, and that he’s told Boras he wants to stay in Detroit. And it seems like Boras has been rattled into talking nonsense by learning that Skubal might not want to go to the highest bidder. 

[Jason_R]

This sounds like a super agent who has been told to get a deal done with Detroit. 

But he was doing the same thing with Bregman too, so….

[Tigermojo]

Part of me says never invest so much in one player, especially a pitcher. Another part of me says Skubal might just be that special case where an exception has to be made.

[SoCalTiger]

Very difficult decision for Mr. Harris. Perhaps this is the "calculated risk " he mentioned during his initial press conference . A 400 million dollar risk. You know 330 makes him the highest paid pitcher ever and if it's 7 years it's also the highest ever per season.  Certainly a risk. 

[oblong]

9 hours ago, buddha said:

counterpoint: miguel cabrera.

i had a friend who owned a pretty popular bar in ferndale.  tigers players would be there all the time.  he told me all kinds of stories about giving guys bottles of this and that.  they'd pound the whole thing and then drive home.  happened all the time.

young, rich, and famous = party all the time.

I do remember.  And a friend of mine got hit on by a player in the early 2010's in Royal Oak, she showed me the video of him standing outside her car.  We all know who he is.

But that was back then.  Today I think it's different.  That's not to say they never go out but I think the local bar scene has zero effect into their decision on where to sign a contract.