chasfh Posted July 2 Posted July 2 3 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: Well you don’t force it. Just let it be known that he is available first. I don’t think Harris has to shop Skubal around. It’s pretty accepted the Tigers “have to sell”. If someone wants to inquire about him, they know Harris’s phone number. Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 2 Posted July 2 This is a huge deadline for Harris, especially if we’re selling. 5 impending free agents that could be moved. 2 Quote
NorthWoods Posted July 2 Posted July 2 4 hours ago, Screwball said: The 71 Orioles say hold my beer. That was incredible to watch. 142 starts from their rotation. The '68 Tigers got 137 from McClain, Lolich, Wilson & Sparma. The '67 Tigers got 142 starts from the same group. 1 Quote
NorthWoods Posted July 2 Posted July 2 1 hour ago, chasfh said: I don’t think Harris has to shop Skubal around. It’s pretty accepted the Tigers “have to sell”. If someone wants to inquire about him, they know Harris’s phone number. They might not now he was available early which historically has raised value Quote
Sports_Freak Posted July 2 Posted July 2 7 hours ago, Tenacious D said: This is a huge deadline for Harris, especially if we’re selling. 5 impending free agents that could be moved. I doubt he could find a buyer for Flaherty unless we kicked in a huge amount of cash to cover his salary. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 9 hours ago, NorthWoods said: 142 starts from their rotation. The '68 Tigers got 137 from McClain, Lolich, Wilson & Sparma. The '67 Tigers got 142 starts from the same group. 1968 was mostly McLain: McLain 41 Wilson 33 Lolich 32 Sparma 31 Dobson 10 Hiller 12 Several years ago, I looked back at every pitching staff from the 50s, 60s and 70s and was surprised to find that it was usually that way. It was one or two guys getting a lot of starts and the rest of them pitching once every five days. The 1971 Orioles did come very close to a true 4-man rotation all year: Cuellar, Palmer and Dobson all had at least 37 starts (53% being complete games) and McNally had 30 The 1967 Tigers did have 3 guys with 37+ starts although not as many CG has the Orioles. Quote
papalawrence Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 1971-75 Wilbur Wood averaged 45+ starts per year. He was a knuckler, but that still amazes me Edited July 2 by papalawrence Quote
Shinzaki Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Lolich was close..he started 209 games from 70 through 74 with a peak of 45 in 1971 Quote
tiger2022 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 15 hours ago, chasfh said: I don’t think Harris has to shop Skubal around. It’s pretty accepted the Tigers “have to sell”. If someone wants to inquire about him, they know Harris’s phone number. They also have in all probability the 2nd best starter available...Mize. teams will be calling Detroit. Quote
NorthWoods Posted July 2 Posted July 2 19 minutes ago, tiger2022 said: They also have in all probability the 2nd best starter available...Mize. teams will be calling Detroit. And I know how popular this will be but.....Flaherty had a 2.50ERA over 4 starts in June. If he pitches like that for the next 30 days there's a good chance we could deal him again. Quote
tiger2022 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 Look at the 1980's early A's rotation. Billy Martin had those guys throwing 150 pitches a game around 300 innings. Those guys were all done by time they were in their late 20s. And more recently, Dusty Baker destroyed the career of two potential Hall of Fame caliber pitchers because he had them throwing 130 pitches a game at 22. If you don't plan on signing guys to extensions, maybe it makes sense to have them throw until they can't, but the agents aren't going to be okay with it. Quote
1984Echoes Posted July 2 Posted July 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, NorthWoods said: And I know how popular this will be but.....Flaherty had a 2.50ERA over 4 starts in June. If he pitches like that for the next 30 days there's a good chance we could deal him again. Not only that... But I'll take a wild guess that there will be teams asking about Framber Valdez. Lower cost (than Mize or Skubal I mean... in prospect terms...), more control, and hope that he can turn it back on. Personally, I believe I came across an article explaining that the ABS is an inch or two above (at the bottom of the zone) the old zone (27" high versus 25" high...? something like that) and without eyesight calls, he's lost the bottom of the zone where he used to THRIVE at and which is now causing him some lost effectiveness. I believe Fetter is pushing him to use more 4-seamers at the top of the zone to help his sinkers/ curves, etc... But he just started to use them the past couple of starts so... So... maybe no interest in him at all. But I'm just guessing here... and I think... maybe. He has a 3.21 ERA in June... Edited July 2 by 1984Echoes Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 I’ll preface this by saying I absolutely don’t want this to happen, but…. what could the return for Dillon Dingler possibly look like? Quote
NorthWoods Posted July 2 Posted July 2 13 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: I’ll preface this by saying I absolutely don’t want this to happen, but…. what could the return for Dillon Dingler possibly look like? 2 MLB position players and 4 of the top 6 prospects from a good farm system. And then I might veto it. Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 2 Posted July 2 33 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: I’ll preface this by saying I absolutely don’t want this to happen, but…. what could the return for Dillon Dingler possibly look like? What’s the return for McGonigle, too? Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 2 Posted July 2 51 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Not only that... But I'll take a wild guess that there will be teams asking about Framber Valdez. Lower cost (than Mize or Skubal I mean... in prospect terms...), more control, and hope that he can turn it back on. Personally, I believe I came across an article explaining that the ABS is an inch or two above (at the bottom of the zone) the old zone (27" high versus 25" high...? something like that) and without eyesight calls, he's lost the bottom of the zone where he used to THRIVE at and which is now causing him some lost effectiveness. I believe Fetter is pushing him to use more 4-seamers at the top of the zone to help his sinkers/ curves, etc... But he just started to use them the past couple of starts so... So... maybe no interest in him at all. But I'm just guessing here... and I think... maybe. He has a 3.21 ERA in June... Not sure I agree. He’s being paid like an ace, but hasn’t pitched like one. And his free agent market was pretty tepid. He’s also insurance for Skubal and Mize leaving, so I don’t see him changing teams. 1 Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted July 2 Posted July 2 28 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: What’s the return for McGonigle, too? Whatever it is, I’d at least want a refund on the jersey I bought Quote
1984Echoes Posted July 3 Posted July 3 1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said: I’ll preface this by saying I absolutely don’t want this to happen, but…. what could the return for Dillon Dingler possibly look like? N/A. Not Applicable. Or "untouchable" if you prefer. Not going to happen. Quote
1984Echoes Posted July 3 Posted July 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tenacious D said: ... free agent market was pretty tepid... I think that tepidness was primarily due to concerns he was "wired" right... Which I think has probably slipped into a dustbin; and last year's episode can be written off as a "one-off". Or at least I believe that is so... As for the other concern: insurance for Skubal and Mize leaving... I believe there are other ways around that (not with them leaving - done deal IMO - but with different ways of covering their leaving... aside from relying on Valdez). Edited July 3 by 1984Echoes Quote
tiger2022 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 If they were actually shopping Dingler and McGinigle, there really isn't even a point in having a franchise 2 Quote
chasfh Posted July 3 Posted July 3 (edited) 3 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: I’ll preface this by saying I absolutely don’t want this to happen, but…. what could the return for Dillon Dingler possibly look like? As long as you’re contemplating destroying the fabric of the team by trading arguably the best player we have who is under control for four more years after this, you might as well contemplate moving the team to Charlotte, since there’s just as much chance of that happening. Edited July 3 by chasfh 1 Quote
Tigermojo Posted July 3 Posted July 3 3 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: I’ll preface this by saying I absolutely don’t want this to happen, but…. what could the return for Dillon Dingler possibly look like? There was just an article on fangraphs how catchers in recent years have not maintained their dominance. I can't see them trading Dingler though. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 2 hours ago, chasfh said: As long as you’re contemplating destroying the fabric of the team by trading arguably the best player we have who is under control for four more years after this, you might as well contemplate moving the team to Charlotte, since there’s just as much chance of that happening. Yes, I have no interest in seeing another re-build. No interest at all. It sucks that they are a loser this year that will probably have to sell their best pitcher or two at the deadline, but that doesn't mean they have to tear it all down. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted July 3 Author Posted July 3 16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Yes, I have no interest in seeing another re-build. No interest at all. It sucks that they are a loser this year that will probably have to sell their best pitcher or two at the deadline, but that doesn't mean they have to tear it all down. A retool is more likely. If they play for the 2028-2029 season, they can maximize their returns and really be looking good. They should forfeit next season if they can get a better deal for lower level prospects....... Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 3 Posted July 3 18 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: A retool is more likely. If they play for the 2028-2029 season, they can maximize their returns and really be looking good. They should forfeit next season if they can get a better deal for lower level prospects....... They should be trying to win every season now. Retool and try to win next year. 3 Quote
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