Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Are there posters fearing a rebuild? I think it’s more like posters wanting another rebuild since they want to trade Skubal and Riley and maybe anything else decent that moves.

Regardless of whether it's fear or desire, I think there is almost no chance of that happening.  If they are out the race at the deadline next year, then they will move Skubal and Mize, but I don't see them trading their core hitters at that time.  

[romad1]

Detroit Tigers fans are in the BPONE.  Understandable.  Have the long view.  2009 begat 2011-2013 runs.  Now, I wish I could say that had the wonderful outcome I wanted.  

 

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Regardless of whether it's fear or desire, I think there is almost no chance of that happening.  If they are out the race at the deadline next year, then they will move Skubal and Mize, but I don't see them trading their core hitters at that time.  

If they trade the last two months of Skubal at the deadline for whatever they can get, they might as well say **** it and start another rebuild, and that goes double if they dump Mize along with him. I don't see them doing that and foregoing their comp pick if Skubal leaves.

[Dan Gilmore]

46 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If they trade the last two months of Skubal at the deadline for whatever they can get, they might as well say **** it and start another rebuild, and that goes double if they dump Mize along with him. I don't see them doing that and foregoing their comp pick if Skubal leaves.

Well, when you reworded it to “dump” and “for whatever they can get”, agreed. But I don’t see things the way you framed them. All trades depend on the return.

[Tiger337]

45 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If they trade the last two months of Skubal at the deadline for whatever they can get, they might as well say **** it and start another rebuild.

Obviously, if they can't get anything better than a comp pick for Skubal at the deadline, they should not trade him.  But your argument sounds like an argument for being more aggressive in trying to win while he's still in Detroit which is something you have seemingly been against.  

[casimir]

On 9/21/2025 at 11:41 AM, oblong said:

Skubal this off-season 

 

 

I love that scene.

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Well, when you reworded it to “dump” and “for whatever they can get”, agreed. But I don’t see things the way you framed them. All trades depend on the return.

My thoughts exactly.  

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Well, when you reworded it to “dump” and “for whatever they can get”, agreed. But I don’t see things the way you framed them. All trades depend on the return.

That last sentence is it.  It all depends on the return.

I’m not saying they should move on from Greene.  But I wouldn’t offer an extension, nor would I consider him untouchable.

Same thing with Carpenter.  I’d think he’d have less trade value than Greene, which is fine.  He could still be used to acquire some pitching depth.  I think going into next season, an OF of Greene, Meadows, Vierling, and Perez ain’t bad all around.

[4hzglory]

32 minutes ago, casimir said:

That last sentence is it.  It all depends on the return.

I’m not saying they should move on from Greene.  But I wouldn’t offer an extension, nor would I consider him untouchable.

Same thing with Carpenter.  I’d think he’d have less trade value than Greene, which is fine.  He could still be used to acquire some pitching depth.  I think going into next season, an OF of Greene, Meadows, Vierling, and Perez ain’t bad all around.

I don’t find it hard to argue that Greene should be the one sitting right now against lefties rather than Carpenter 

[papalawrence]

I think Harris will get incredible offers for skubal this winter. He's a generational talent with a bulldog mentality. I still hope Det will find a way to keep him.

[monkeytargets39]

I want Skubal locked up long term, however…
 

If they internally know that they don’t intend to do everything they can to re-sign Skubal, then trade him this offseason for multiple major league ready contributors at places of need.  Don’t keep him for half a year next year and risk getting a reduced return on him at the deadline.  We won’t know what teams will be in play to trade for him next deadline until we get to June.

And if they deal Skubal in the offseason, then they need to legitimately address all other areas of need with the team via free agency.  As in: Get a shortstop, get a minimum of two legit starters and get a minimum of 3 established bullpen arms who aren’t injury/bounceback guys. 
 

What you can’t do is trade Skubal/let him walk next year AND not spend money on other positions.  That should get Harris fired and Chris Illitch run out of town.

[1776]

Article in the Athletic by Ken Rosenthal:

 After the deadline, Harris was dismissive of the idea that the Tigers needed to maximize their competitive window with Cy Young favorite Tarik Skubal, telling reporters, “this idea of a window is an illusion.” Really? Skubal is under club control for only one more season after this one. And the way this season started, this was perhaps the Tigers’ best chance to win before he reaches free agency.

                     ——///——

I have to disagree with Harris’ quote above. In the real world, there is a window of opportunity where Skubal is involved. 
I’m generally not a Rosenthal fan but I believe he on the right side of this discussion.

 

 

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Article in the Athletic by Ken Rosenthal:

 After the deadline, Harris was dismissive of the idea that the Tigers needed to maximize their competitive window with Cy Young favorite Tarik Skubal, telling reporters, “this idea of a window is an illusion.” Really? Skubal is under club control for only one more season after this one. And the way this season started, this was perhaps the Tigers’ best chance to win before he reaches free agency.

                     ——///——

I have to disagree with Harris’ quote above. In the real world, there is a window of opportunity where Skubal is involved. 
I’m generally not a Rosenthal fan but I believe he on the right side of this discussion.

 

 

I agree with Rosenthal.  They have a window of opportunity with Skubal.  Hopefully, there will be new opportunities if he leaves, but we don't know that.  

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Obviously, if they can't get anything better than a comp pick for Skubal at the deadline, they should not trade him.  But your argument sounds like an argument for being more aggressive in trying to win while he's still in Detroit which is something you have seemingly been against.  

I’m not really making a value judgement here as much as trying to reflect how I think the front office might be seeing things. That’s generally my approach in discussions like these. I’m always very interested in the business side of how players are valued. Maybe I do miss working after all. 😁

As for what I actually want, I want the Tigers to keep Skubal for 2026, and I think they will. I don’t know how bad it would have to be for me to want to trade Skubal at the deadline, but if we’re playing sub-.400 ball by the end of next July, I guess I’d want to trade him for a major-league ready top 100 guy in AAA who can start in April 2027. I don’t know that two months of Skubal would give us that kind of return, and I also don’t think any team would sweeten the pot just to take Mize (as currently constructed) in a package. That’s almost always not how deadline deals work.

Also: I’m not against being aggressive to win, per se. I just don’t think it has been the right time for Harris/Ilitch to push all the chips in to “win now” yet, and not because I wouldn’t like to win now—I’m as much of a meathead as anyone when it comes to winning now—but again, I am trying to see it form the front office point of view. If we start trading all the top of our system for proven veterans, as so many fans want to see, that means we are trading the future for the present, and if it fails, we might be right back to 2015 all over again. I wouldn’t want to see that, so yes, I’m glad they did not go all in this year, and I don’t want them to go all in next year, if trading Max and McGongile and the others is part of that bargain.

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’m not really making a value judgement here as much as trying to reflect how I think the front office might be seeing things. That’s generally my approach in discussions like these. I’m always very interested in the business side of how players are valued. Maybe I do miss working after all. 😁

As for what I actually want, I want the Tigers to keep Skubal for 2026, and I think they will. I don’t know how bad it would have to be for me to want to trade Skubal at the deadline, but if we’re playing sub-.400 ball by the end of next July, I guess I’d want to trade him for a major-league ready top 100 guy in AAA who can start in April 2027. I don’t know that two months of Skubal would give us that kind of return, and I also don’t think any team would sweeten the pot just to take Mize (as currently constructed) in a package. That’s almost always not how deadline deals work.

Also: I’m not against being aggressive to win, per se. I just don’t think it has been the right time for Harris/Ilitch to push all the chips in to “win now” yet, and not because I wouldn’t like to win now—I’m as much of a meathead as anyone when it comes to winning now—but again, I am trying to see it form the front office point of view. If we start trading all the top of our system for proven veterans, as so many fans want to see, that means we are trading the future for the present, and if it fails, we might be right back to 2015 all over again. I wouldn’t want to see that, so yes, I’m glad they did not go all in this year, and I don’t want them to go all in next year, if trading Max and McGongile and the others is part of that bargain.

I don't think anybody here suggested that they should have traded Clark and McGonigle.  Teams rarely have to trade their elite prospects in deadline trades.  

I personally can see both sides.  I understand the Tigers wanting to keep all their prospects and I certainly understand it's not good to overpay for a two month rental.  At the same time, I don't believe there is a magic window of opportunity in the future.  I see their remaining time with Skubal as an opportunity which may or may not present itself again in the future.  I was not pushing so much for deadline deals though.  The off-season is a better time to be makking impact deals - either trades or free agents.  

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Well, when you reworded it to “dump” and “for whatever they can get”, agreed. But I don’t see things the way you framed them. All trades depend on the return.

That's fair, and I mostly agree on the value of return statement, although we don't all agree on what constitutes fair return. Fans naturally value their own assets way more than the market does, and I don't think two months of Skubal shopped by a flailing team seemingly desperate to sell returns a major-league-ready top 100 guy. Perhaps a down-the-system top 100 lottery ticket plus a major-league ready depth guy.

People might reply, well of course we don't trade him if we can't get the right return. And that's the right way to see it. But then those same fans will also start hammering Harris for hugging players too closely, because we don't see any of the offers that come across that he rejects, so we imagine Harris turning down single-digit MLB prospects, and then we get ourselves big mad. It's really a small margin of error for Harris as far as that's concerned.

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't think anybody here suggested that they should have traded Clark and McGonigle.  Teams rarely have to trade their elite prospects in deadline trades.  

True, but I did see some suggest we trade various down-system flotsam for Bednar or Suarez or Duran or Mason Miller. Some will even say we could have because look who they did get traded for after all. But none of us were in the room so we don't know what Harris turned down.

I do agree that the deadline was a mixed bag for him. Finnegan and Montero were pretty good pickups, but nothing else seems to have worked out.

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I do agree that the deadline was a mixed bag for him. Finnegan and Montero were pretty good pickups, but nothing else seems to have worked out.

Given the moves they made and how little they gave up, they did about as well with their return as could be expected.  I was not expecting anything from Morton, Paddack and Sewald.  They weren't bad moves, but they I saw them as depth moves which could have possibly worked out.  Sewald still might next year if they keep him  

[monkeytargets39]

One other potential thing that may arise is that I don’t know if you can go into next year with the assumption that Jobe and Olson will be contributing much.  Jobe obviously coming off the surgery, but Olson has an injury history that’s piling up.  Odds that the two of them will be full strength for a lot of the year is slim.  Same with SGL.  
 

Should Flaherty leave, we may need to spend a good amount of capital just to fill out next years rotation beyond Skubal and Mize or risk being uncompetitive.

[gehringer_2]

35 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

One other potential thing that may arise is that I don’t know if you can go into next year with the assumption that Jobe and Olson will be contributing much.  Jobe obviously coming off the surgery, but Olson has an injury history that’s piling up.  Odds that the two of them will be full strength for a lot of the year is slim.  Same with SGL.  
 

Should Flaherty leave, we may need to spend a good amount of capital just to fill out next years rotation beyond Skubal and Mize or risk being uncompetitive.

this is the big downside risk - the pitching could end up pretty bad next season and we don't really have the depth of position players to bring much pitching back in trade without gutting the offense. This particular team may well have peaked  without ever having gotten quite good enough. 

OTOH, every other team has problems too.

Edited September 23 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is the big downside risk - the pitching could end up pretty bad next season and we don't really have the depth of position players to bring much pitching back in trade without gutting the offense. This particular team may well have peaked  without ever having gotten quite good enough. 

OTOH, every other team has problems too.

Not every other team is blowing a double digit division lead in three weeks.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

Alrighty boys. Time for ATF to talk. 

I have been saying since last year the Tigers overplayed the year and I got FLAMED (literally 80% of you wanted me to go play in traffic of US-23 with Semi's going as fast as they could I run back an forth blindfolded until I couldn't make it across). I said going into spring training that they would suck this year and last year was a mirage. Again, I got flamed (probably 90% of you this time. I could look up the posts but my therapist says to move on). Now, did I deserve it..... probably. At one point the Tigers had a 20 game lead in the division. Now having said that, the average hitter in the lineup was something like .240/.290/400 but meh, it's all good. 

 

I hate to say I was right when legit, 90% of this board flamed me so hard, but alas here we are. Now I can tell you, that we do not need a complete teardown like some of you are calling for now.  

When is the last time we legit had superstars come up to the Majors? Greene and Torkelson are as close to it as can be. Before them, Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller?  Greene is a long-term piece, and he should be locked up (something like 170 mil for 8 years). Torkelson is an average first basemen and I believe he can knock in 30 annually. I'd lock him up too. Out of our lineup right now, Torkelson, Kerry Carpenter, Greene, Dingler, Colt Keith, JHM and Parker Meadows are really the only players they should keep on the roster from position players. Flaherty (I think he'll be better next year), Holton, Hurter, Melton, Mize, Keider Montero, Paul Sewald, Will Vest are the only pitchers worth a **** to keep. That's 14/25 spots on the roster, thus leaving a lot of room for improvement. 

This off-season, they HAVE to trade Skubal. You don't wait till the trade deadline for next year because 1.) Skubal could get hurt, 2.) You get a hell of a lot more value to a team that gets him for a full year vs a half year. Thus you trade him NOW. This off-season! Don't wait! 

Armchair GM here (You can stop reading here as this is the ranting part where I get off my rocker, so if you don't want to hear stupid crap from here on out, stop reading):

McGonigle and Clark are going to be legit. I'm not sold on Briceno and Liranzo as everyone else is. Too early to call on Bryce Rainer.  

Off-season move that makes too much sense for both teams that they won't do it: Skubal to Phillies for Andrew Painter, Aidan Miller and Justin Crawford..... Makes too much sense for both teams. Even if we have to trade in someone like Hao-Yu Lee or Max Anderson...... Dave Dombrowski hates young players. His team is designed to win NOW. He's ruined every single farm system he's ever had ownership of. The Phillies are in win-now mode, and next year may be the closing window. Skubal, Wheeler, Luzardo, Nola..... Gives them the best rotation in baseball with literally only the Pirates being able to be in the same breath as them. (Maybe LAD, but really, if Skub went to the Phillies, LAD would be a distant 3rd). 
 

Trade for guys that are young/blocked on their current teams. Drew Romo (C) Col, Keaton Winn (SP) San Fran, Tyler Wells (SP) Bal ...... guys like that. Take a chance on injuries but on guys that were injured 27 or younger, not 37 or older (Tyler Wells is 31 but he'd be a #2 on most teams, but Baltimore hates him for some reason).....  

Middle of next year, McGonigle, Briceno and Liranzo should be up (if the latter two aren't traded). Clark could be a late-season call-up as well. 

Biggest off-season move: Sign Kyle Tucker 42 mil/10 years. He will age WAY better than Skubal, and provide leadership for the team. 

Going into the 2026/2027 off-season, the team looks something like this:

Greene - LF
Clark - CF
Tucker - RF
Carpenter - DH
Torkelson - 1B
McGonigle - 2B
Aidan Miller - SS
Colt Keith - 3B
Romo - C

Bench Pieces: Rainer (he might need another year),Dingler, Crawford, JHM, Meadows

 

Rotation
Mize
Painter
Wells
Winn
Melton

BP/Other Starters
Vest
Flaherty
Holton
Hurter
Montero

Anyone else, that makes sense. Anyone not bolded (farm system/not listed above -  like Baez [yeah right - what trade value], Jake Rogers etc....) can be traded for anything. (We'd probably need some more pitching/starts so you can trade whatever you want, however you want [including flipping Crawford if you have to but rather trade Meadows if you can and keep Crawford as your #4 OF here]).

So anyways. This is what the Tigers should do. If you're still reading this then you're nuts. But in a perfect world, the Tigers aren't that far off. They were a mirage late last year, and the first half of this year (I truly forgive you all for thinking I should be shot and not a true Tigers fan and hope they still sneak into the playoffs as it's always easier to say "I told you so" after the fact). Great streak but they've come back to earth since. We need guys that are .280+/.340+/450+ hitters in the lineup. Not .200/.260/.400 hitters. We can do it if Harrison is smart. It all starts with Skubal getting moved this off-season. He cannot phak this up.  
 

[papalawrence]

2 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Alrighty boys. Time for ATF to talk. 

I have been saying since last year the Tigers overplayed the year and I got FLAMED (literally 80% of you wanted me to go play in traffic of US-23 with Semi's going as fast as they could I run back an forth blindfolded until I couldn't make it across). I said going into spring training that they would suck this year and last year was a mirage. Again, I got flamed (probably 90% of you this time. I could look up the posts but my therapist says to move on). Now, did I deserve it..... probably. At one point the Tigers had a 20 game lead in the division. Now having said that, the average hitter in the lineup was something like .240/.290/400 but meh, it's all good. 

 

I hate to say I was right when legit, 90% of this board flamed me so hard, but alas here we are. Now I can tell you, that we do not need a complete teardown like some of you are calling for now.  

When is the last time we legit had superstars come up to the Majors? Greene and Torkelson are as close to it as can be. Before them, Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller?  Greene is a long-term piece, and he should be locked up (something like 170 mil for 8 years). Torkelson is an average first basemen and I believe he can knock in 30 annually. I'd lock him up too. Out of our lineup right now, Torkelson, Kerry Carpenter, Greene, Dingler, Colt Keith, JHM and Parker Meadows are really the only players they should keep on the roster from position players. Flaherty (I think he'll be better next year), Holton, Hurter, Melton, Mize, Keider Montero, Paul Sewald, Will Vest are the only pitchers worth a **** to keep. That's 14/25 spots on the roster, thus leaving a lot of room for improvement. 

This off-season, they HAVE to trade Skubal. You don't wait till the trade deadline for next year because 1.) Skubal could get hurt, 2.) You get a hell of a lot more value to a team that gets him for a full year vs a half year. Thus you trade him NOW. This off-season! Don't wait! 

Armchair GM here (You can stop reading here as this is the ranting part where I get off my rocker, so if you don't want to hear stupid crap from here on out, stop reading):

McGonigle and Clark are going to be legit. I'm not sold on Briceno and Liranzo as everyone else is. Too early to call on Bryce Rainer.  

Off-season move that makes too much sense for both teams that they won't do it: Skubal to Phillies for Andrew Painter, Aidan Miller and Justin Crawford..... Makes too much sense for both teams. Even if we have to trade in someone like Hao-Yu Lee or Max Anderson...... Dave Dombrowski hates young players. His team is designed to win NOW. He's ruined every single farm system he's ever had ownership of. The Phillies are in win-now mode, and next year may be the closing window. Skubal, Wheeler, Luzardo, Nola..... Gives them the best rotation in baseball with literally only the Pirates being able to be in the same breath as them. (Maybe LAD, but really, if Skub went to the Phillies, LAD would be a distant 3rd). 
 

Trade for guys that are young/blocked on their current teams. Drew Romo (C) Col, Keaton Winn (SP) San Fran, Tyler Wells (SP) Bal ...... guys like that. Take a chance on injuries but on guys that were injured 27 or younger, not 37 or older (Tyler Wells is 31 but he'd be a #2 on most teams, but Baltimore hates him for some reason).....  

Middle of next year, McGonigle, Briceno and Liranzo should be up (if the latter two aren't traded). Clark could be a late-season call-up as well. 

Biggest off-season move: Sign Kyle Tucker 42 mil/10 years. He will age WAY better than Skubal, and provide leadership for the team. 

Going into the 2026/2027 off-season, the team looks something like this:

Greene - LF
Clark - CF
Tucker - RF
Carpenter - DH
Torkelson - 1B
McGonigle - 2B
Aidan Miller - SS
Colt Keith - 3B
Romo - C

Bench Pieces: Rainer (he might need another year),Dingler, Crawford, JHM, Meadows

 

Rotation
Mize
Painter
Wells
Winn
Melton

BP/Other Starters
Vest
Flaherty
Holton
Hurter
Montero

Anyone else, that makes sense. Anyone not bolded (farm system/not listed above -  like Baez [yeah right - what trade value], Jake Rogers etc....) can be traded for anything. (We'd probably need some more pitching/starts so you can trade whatever you want, however you want [including flipping Crawford if you have to but rather trade Meadows if you can and keep Crawford as your #4 OF here]).

So anyways. This is what the Tigers should do. If you're still reading this then you're nuts. But in a perfect world, the Tigers aren't that far off. They were a mirage late last year, and the first half of this year (I truly forgive you all for thinking I should be shot and not a true Tigers fan and hope they still sneak into the playoffs as it's always easier to say "I told you so" after the fact). Great streak but they've come back to earth since. We need guys that are .280+/.340+/450+ hitters in the lineup. Not .200/.260/.400 hitters. We can do it if Harrison is smart. It all starts with Skubal getting moved this off-season. He cannot phak this up.  
 

Remember it's quite likely there will be a work stoppage in 2027. From what I have read, owners will push hard for a salary cap

[AlaskanTigersFan]

Just now, papalawrence said:

Remember it's quite likely there will be a work stoppage in 2027. From what I have read, owners will push hard for a salary cap

Even more reason to do everything listed above. In this scenario, you're well under any cap that could be put in place. And it'd be a sustainable team for 4-5 years when the next wave of Tigers prospects (that are currently in Low-A or younger) are ready to come up. 

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Alrighty boys. Time for ATF to talk. 

I have been saying since last year the Tigers overplayed the year and I got FLAMED (literally 80% of you wanted me to go play in traffic of US-23 with Semi's going as fast as they could I run back an forth blindfolded until I couldn't make it across). I said going into spring training that they would suck this year and last year was a mirage. Again, I got flamed (probably 90% of you this time. I could look up the posts but my therapist says to move on). Now, did I deserve it..... probably. At one point the Tigers had a 20 game lead in the division. Now having said that, the average hitter in the lineup was something like .240/.290/400 but meh, it's all good. 

 

I hate to say I was right when legit, 90% of this board flamed me so hard, but alas here we are. Now I can tell you, that we do not need a complete teardown like some of you are calling for now.  

 

 

I doubt anybody remembers or cares what you said in spring training, but it It seems you were wrong when you said: "I said going into spring training that they would suck this year and last year was a mirage"

You were wrong because they didn't suck until the end of the year.  They were good most of the year.  Their overall record is about the same as last year.  Just very different sequencing.  The collapse at the end has been embarrassing and depressing, but I don't think their overall record is much different than most people predicted.