Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’d be frankly shocked if we missed the playoffs, but if we did, I would definitely blame something else besides not trading Skubal. I promise you I won’t go back on that one. 

I am pretty sure you'll blame it on Avila

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

I'm strictly playing devils advocate here........

If you were the GM of the Tigers, would you rather have one year of Skubal, or would you rather have the next 6-8 years of Clark, McGonigle and Rainer (assuming in this scenario they weren't already in the Tigers Farm system)? 

Why do I have to choose between the two? We can have both, and I’m pretty sure we will.

But if you’re suggesting that we would be able to trade one remaining year of Skubal for a package that’s the equivalent of Clark and McGonigle and Rainer—i.e., Skubal for three top 40 prospects—then all due respect, that question is just laughable on his face.

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I am pretty sure you'll blame it on Avila

That’s funny, but seriously, no.

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, Shelton said:

Pretty much co-sign all of this, except for your ongoing (and well-established at this point!) concern over how trading Skubal will affect the ability to attract FAs. Not that it isn’t true to some extent, but mostly because if this team’s analysis is in line with a decision to trade Skubal, that almost surely means that their intent is to run the franchise like a rich man’s Rays, and they are unlikely to ever be in the position to attract a FA anyway.

We appear to agree that if we trade Skubal, we won’t be able to attract top free agents, so I’m not clear on what if any disagreement you’re seeking to highlight?

I will opine that being the rich man’s Rays would be far better than being the team that tears down and goes on a rebuild just as they’re on a playoff run, which would be asinine. At least the Rays have nine playoff and two World Series appearances to show for that strategy.

[IdahoBert]

This team is capable of growing its own in its solar powered self-replicating underground hydroponic greenhouse, and is committed to that process, but I think Harris is fully aware of the value of coming up into the sunlight at ground zero and dealing with other protagonists on their level.

I’m hoping for some above ground activity this week and if there isn’t much, I don’t think it will be because Harris is a conceited college boy or Chris is a cheap bastard. it’ll be for well-thought-out reasons aligned with a general operating procedure that has birthed more fruit recently than we ever harvested for many years previously.

[Dan Gilmore]

It seems to me the big dividing line between the Pro Trade folks and the Anti Trade folks is on the return for Skubal. With no knowledge of actual proposals to access (ignoring the crap from writers that need to file a story) I tend to be in the Anti camp, but willing to change if a great return is offered. Until then, it’s all speculation and wishcasting. Show me the confirmed deals. Most never do come out in the open, some get a glimpse of what was a possibility.

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

It seems to me the big dividing line between the Pro Trade folks and the Anti Trade folks is on the return for Skubal. With no knowledge of actual proposals to access (ignoring the crap from writers that need to file a story) I tend to be in the Anti camp, but willing to change if a great return is offered. Until then, it’s all speculation and wishcasting. Show me the confirmed deals. Most never do come out in the open, some get a glimpse of what was a possibility.

There's another dividing line, between those who:

A) Believe that we can both trade Skubal AND sign other FA's or make other trades, and

B) Those who believe that if we trade Skubal that that is the end of the Tigers. No one will want to sign with the Tigers. We will no longer be able to be a competitive team, starting in 2026. Nothing else counts or matters. Trade Skubal and it's the end of the Tigers.

 

[Dan Gilmore]

That’s your spin. I don’t buy it at all.

[Tiger337]

The arguments in this thread are getting pretty crazy.  Harris needs to do something.  

[Tigermojo]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The arguments in this thread are getting pretty crazy.  Harris needs to do something.  

He could tell us if Drew Anderson passed his physical and if his contract is similar to Manuel Margot's at the very least! 

New net for the ping pong table perhaps? 

[IdahoBert]

5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

The arguments in this thread are getting pretty crazy.  Harris needs to do something.  

I have to admit, I sort of miss the drama of the way Dombrowski could acquire established talent, even if it didn’t in the end pan out the way any of us hoped it would.

What’s the famous saying? “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.” The Tigers have to be some part of the main this week. Some activity with other clubs that work within a SOP methodology seems to be required. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

We all know in hindsight that the Verlander trade to the Astros by Al Avila was a complete dud. It was a trade that in the long-term lead to Avilia being hated by fans and losing his job as GM. The hate on the Verlander trade is not revisionist history either. Many people here and throughout the fanbase hated what Avila brought back or didn't get in return for Verlander as it happened. Specifically, people seemed to hate not getting their top prospect and a top 30 prospect overall in Kyle Tucker.

Would you have been satisfied with the Verlander trade at the time if it were a straight up deal for Kyle Tucker? If you could get an organization's top positional prospect today, and you felt that player was going to develop into a Kyle Tucker equivalent player, would that be enough for Skubal in your mind? Granted, you don't always know what a player will develop into. You can think you're getting the next Kyle Tucker and instead you get the next Eric Munson. But assuming your Team President, GM, and scouting staff had enough confidence that the player they got in return would be of Tucker-like caliber, would that be enough for you?

Edited 10 hours ago by Mr.TaterSalad

[SoCalTiger]

4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

The Clash: "Should I Stay or Should I Go?"

 

Interesting and excellent point...!

Yes the Clash..I remember punk rocking to them in some semi dive many moons ago . Great song and Thank you !

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I’d be frankly shocked if we missed the playoffs, but if we did, I would definitely blame something else besides not trading Skubal. I promise you I won’t go back on that one. 

In the Central the odds are we will make the playoffs so I agree if we did not it wouldn't be because Skubal stunk but it would leave a HUGE hole for 2027 that we could have had partially filled by trading him. And I am not advocating trading him mostly because I do not think the returns being offered are close to what the "media talking heads" portend. I think the other GM's are a bunch of Hyenas laying in the weeds drooling while waiting for Skubs free agency. Heck just today Friedman said they don't anticipate and "heavy lifting" this off season...because they have their targets set on Tarik next year knowing Boras will "lay out the spread".

[1984Echoes]

50 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

That’s your spin. I don’t buy it at all.

What spin?

Read the thread.

It's all in here, black and white.

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, IdahoBert said:

This team is capable of growing its own in its solar powered self-replicating underground hydroponic greenhouse, and is committed to that process, but I think Harris is fully aware of the value of coming up into the sunlight at ground zero and dealing with other protagonists on their level.

I’m hoping for some above ground activity this week and if there isn’t much, I don’t think it will be because Harris is a conceited college boy or Chris is a cheap bastard. it’ll be for well-thought-out reasons aligned with a general operating procedure that has birthed more fruit recently than we ever harvested for many years previously.

You have Spock mind melded into Harris and Juniors brains and speak their truth. 

[papalawrence]

1 hour ago, IdahoBert said:

This team is capable of growing its own in its solar powered self-replicating underground hydroponic greenhouse, and is committed to that process, but I think Harris is fully aware of the value of coming up into the sunlight at ground zero and dealing with other protagonists on their level.

I’m hoping for some above ground activity this week and if there isn’t much, I don’t think it will be because Harris is a conceited college boy or Chris is a cheap bastard. it’ll be for well-thought-out reasons aligned with a general operating procedure that has birthed more fruit recently than we ever harvested for many years previously.

Love the post! but as I read it a second time, in the dark web of my mind I heard Charlton Heston screaming something about soylent Green and now I have diarrhea 

[papalawrence]

I think the Tigers have a few likely regression candidates and depending on who Harris brings in, I will not be very surprised if the Tigers miss the playoffs in 2026. Hopefully players like Keith continue to ascend and Vierling comes back at his 2024 level. And hopefully Harris does bring in a couple notable players. The memory of September still lingers in my head, like a bad commercial jingle sung by William Shatner 

[Tenacious D]

The other thing is that we really don’t know what a return could be for Skubal.  All speculation has come from podcasts and industry insiders.  They might be much more bullish than what teams will be willing to surrender.

[Shelton]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

We appear to agree that if we trade Skubal, we won’t be able to attract top free agents, so I’m not clear on what if any disagreement you’re seeking to highlight?

I will opine that being the rich man’s Rays would be far better than being the team that tears down and goes on a rebuild just as they’re on a playoff run, which would be asinine. At least the Rays have nine playoff and two World Series appearances to show for that strategy.

I’m saying that trading Skubal this year or losing Skubal next year doesn’t substantially affect whether or not free agent X will sign with us. And also it won’t really matter, because if we are the type of team to trade Skubal, we won’t be in on the free agents that have the luxury of saying no to us. 

Edited 9 hours ago by Shelton

[Tiger337]

Keep Skubal, sign Begman

[roarintiger1]

The Tigers' track record is not really very good when it comes to trading away established talent and what they got in return.   I would guess that a Skubal trade would also be a major blunder. I would pay him whatever he wants to keep him.   They will never have this kind of talent again for a long, long time.   

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

I’m saying that trading Skubal this year or losing Skubal next year doesn’t substantially affect whether or not free agent X will sign with us. And also it won’t really matter, because if we are the type of team to trade Skubal, we won’t be in on the free agents that have the luxury of saying no to us. 

My recent thought has been that signing Skubal to a long-term deal would go a long way toward signaling to the market that we are serious about contending, which would make us a more attractive destination.

If we let Skubal walk next year, that may not hurt our position with free agents all that much, depending in large part how this season goes and what our roster looks like next winter.

If we trade Skubal for minor leaguers this winter, however, I believe that would be an unmitigated disaster in terms of our ability to attract top talent to the team, because that would likely be seen as an active move toward pulling back on competing this season after making the playoffs the past two seasons. IOW, it would look like we're going into another rebuild. Fair or not, I do believe that would be the perception.

[Shelton]

Yeah, I know. We all know. 
 

And I’m saying trading Skubal would be the most cowardly move a Detroit GM has ever made and nothing will matter after doing so. Eat Arby’s. 

[Tenacious D]

8 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Yeah, I know. We all know. 
 

And I’m saying trading Skubal would be the most cowardly move a Detroit GM has ever made and nothing will matter after doing so. Eat Arby’s. 

I think it’s the opposite.  Would take balls to trade him—he will instantly piss off all Tigers fans.