Baseball Expansion discussion, 2025 edition

[Dan Gilmore]

I’m on the same T-Mobile deal. Hoping it stays.

[casimir]

On 8/19/2025 at 5:08 PM, chasfh said:

If I'm reading between the lines of Manfred's comments correctly, I'm thinking he wants the whole American/National League distinction to go away completely and teams to be placed in convenient geographically-driven divisions within convenient geographically-driven conferences and leagues, which would help northeast and Midwest teams and hurt teams out west. There will be a fight about that, I assume, with western teams resenting northeast teams getting cushy travel situations such as NYY, NYM, BOS, and PHI all in the same four-team division.

What they should probably do is create divisions that has the most equitable travel arrangement possible for all teams. It will never be even steven, unless they move Seattle, Washington to another part of the country. But they could put, say, NYY and TBR in the same division and have them travel to each other more as division rivals.

If Manfred were to get his way, though, and geography with a dash of division rivalry wins out, it could look something like this:

League 1 (East)

Conference A
    Division 1: NYY, NYM, BOS, PHI
    Division 2: WAS, BAL, PIT, TOR
Conference B
    Division 3: MIA, TBR, ATL, Nashville
    Division 4: DET, CLE, CIN, CHW

League 2 (West)

Conference C
    Division 5: CHC, MIL, MIN, STL
    Division 6: HOU, TEX, COL, KCR
Conference D
    Division 7: Vegas, ARI, LAA, Salt Lake
    Division 8: LAD, SFG, SDP, SEA

This is what it would look like on a map:

 

I'd take those bubbles and double them up.  8 per division, 1 league.  It'd be easier to start west and move eastward.  If Salt Lake gets a team, just combine those two.  If its Nashville and a more eastern team, say San Antonio or Charlotte as an example, then Colorado shifts over.

There's a way to realign that geographically that makes sense.  Traditional AL and NL alignments might go out the window, but I'm fine with that.  Maybe its a Central, Northeast and Southeast to go with the West.  Or maybe its North, South, East, and West.  Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox together.  White Sox and Cubs and by extension Cardinals and Royals together.  All of the western teams together to alleviate some of Seattle's traveling disadvantage.  Pirates and Guardians and Reds together.

[casimir]

5 games vs each of 24 teams in other divisions = 120 games.

6 games vs each of 7 other teams within same division = 42 games.

Total of 162 games for the 8 teams in 4 division alignment.  The math works well to keep the current game inventory.  You're all welcome.

Keep the 12 playoff teams, rank them according to overall record, and go with the bracket as is.

All star game can be done however.  Take 2 divisions and assign them as American, and the other 2 divisions as National.  Or just pick a pool of all stars and assign teams however.  It could be alphabetical according to height for all I care about that.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I'd take those bubbles and double them up.  8 per division, 1 league.  It'd be easier to start west and move eastward.  If Salt Lake gets a team, just combine those two.  If its Nashville and a more eastern team, say San Antonio or Charlotte as an example, then Colorado shifts over.

There's a way to realign that geographically that makes sense.  Traditional AL and NL alignments might go out the window, but I'm fine with that.  Maybe its a Central, Northeast and Southeast to go with the West.  Or maybe its North, South, East, and West.  Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox together.  White Sox and Cubs and by extension Cardinals and Royals together.  All of the western teams together to alleviate some of Seattle's traveling disadvantage.  Pirates and Guardians and Reds together.

I think they want 4-team divisions because it gives the impression that the local team has a better chance at the playoffs.  If fans are that shallow though, how do they follow the wildcard races?  Isn't that more confusing for them? It is easier if they have no divisions and just take the top 6 teams (or 7 or 8 or whatever they end up with) Then everybody knows that their team has to finish in the top 6 and they don't have to do any math.      

Edited yesterday at 02:06 AM by Tiger337

[RandyMarsh]

I always use my parents as the stereotypical "casual fan", they will watch the games once in awhile but I'm usually the one to keep them up to date on things and after they ask if they are doing well or not it's always followed with "Are they going to the playoffs?", they never ask about their place in the division.  I wonder if others are like that or not, if they are then that is even more reason to do away with the small divisions. 

[IdahoBert]

7 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I always use my parents as the stereotypical "casual fan", they will watch the games once in awhile but I'm usually the one to keep them up to date on things and after they ask if they are doing well or not it's always followed with "Are they going to the playoffs?", they never ask about their place in the division.  I wonder if others are like that or not, if they are then that is even more reason to do away with the small divisions. 

The “are they going to the playoffs?” sounds like a quintessential non-baseball fan thing to say.

A baseball season is like walking with your friends from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean and only taking a day off every 10 days or so. It’s like a pilgrimage.

It takes a long time because there are so many games. Rain or shine you’re out there. Sometimes staying in a campground, or taking shelter under a bridge and sometimes staying in fine hotel nursing your sore feet.

A baseball team is a commitment, a vocation, and it’s not a walk in the park. The journey is more important than the destination. The playoffs so-called seem a long way off. Relish the moment, relish the scenery of the eternal now. Time is extended.

Other sports only occur once a week, have set timetables, and sometimes have a two week gap and that’s not much time walking. It’s easier to think about the destination and consider that the only sustenance. You’re never really nursing sore feet.

A baseball season is like an entire lifespan and the next year you rise from the dead and you’re in a brand new body and you can do it all over again having lost some compadres and gained some new ones. 

Sometimes at the end of a season’s coast to coast walk, something really special will happen and it will bind peoples hearts and minds together for generations, and when they talk about it and share that moment their voices will quiver with emotion. And that’s better than fantasizing about “playoffs.“

[RandyMarsh]

Beautifully put Bert!

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, casimir said:

I'd take those bubbles and double them up.  8 per division, 1 league.  It'd be easier to start west and move eastward.  If Salt Lake gets a team, just combine those two.  If its Nashville and a more eastern team, say San Antonio or Charlotte as an example, then Colorado shifts over.

There's a way to realign that geographically that makes sense.  Traditional AL and NL alignments might go out the window, but I'm fine with that.  Maybe its a Central, Northeast and Southeast to go with the West.  Or maybe its North, South, East, and West.  Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox together.  White Sox and Cubs and by extension Cardinals and Royals together.  All of the western teams together to alleviate some of Seattle's traveling disadvantage.  Pirates and Guardians and Reds together.

As I think more about this, I'm starting to come around to the idea that they won't have what are essentially eastern and western leagues, since that would mean Ohtani would potentially come to eastern markets, i.e., New York, only once every two years. So they may retain the coast-to-coast two-league situation for not much more than that reason alone.

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, casimir said:

5 games vs each of 24 teams in other divisions = 120 games.

Would this be one five-game series in one place, or two series with three games in one place and two games in the other?

[CMRivdogs]

I admit that I'm in the minority. I want four eight team divisions. 4 division winners, the next 4 best records make the playoffs from each "League".

I want the "World Champs" to earn their trophy.

I'm agnostic about dividing among divisions, would like to keep the traditional AL and NL teams remain in their leagues. Maybe going back to the pre 1961 days. There would be a couple issues, Atlanta comes to mind. The current Milwaukee club has been in place longer than it was in Seattle. Dodgers and Giants are staples, of course on the west coast.

Maybe just make the Athletics play all their games on the road considering how much they've moved