Week Thirteen: Green Bay Packers (7-3-1) @ Detroit Lions (7-4)

[MichiganCardinal]

LaFluer went into this season knowing he needed to beat the Lions to win this division. And he did it.

Campbell got outcoached 2/2 games this season. That’s not to say it’s over between them. LaFleur got outcoached 2/2 games last season.

But things need to improve. We can’t let mediocre QB Jordan Love torch us every November, but that’s just a start.

The hiring of Morton was bad. Can’t happen again. We need an OC that knows who this roster has and can make use of them:

It’s not over yet. But this is shaping into the season of “what could have been”

[sagnam]

The Packes  have a good defense. Why? Is it the DB’s? Nope. It’s the pass rush and LBs. We have the linebackers. We do not have the pass rush. I think we are multiple players away from having a good pass rush. Maybe with some zone blitzes mixed in we could loosen up the pass protections. Who knows? We are married to playing man to man and hoping for the opponent to make mistakes instead of just making plays ourselves.

Edited 8 hours ago by sagnam

[MichiganCardinal]

4 minutes ago, sagnam said:

The Packes  have a good defense. Why? Is it the DB’s? Nope. It’s the pass rush and LBs. We have the linebackers. We do not have the pass rush. I think we are multiple players away from having a good pass rush. Maybe with some zone blitzes mixed in we could loosen up the pass protections. Who knows? We are married to playing man to man and hoping for the opponent to make mistakes instead of just making plays outselves.

It helps when they’re going against a completely outmatched offensive line.

The opening sequence was inexcusable. Who could have seen the Packers overmatching the interior coming??

[NYLion]

13 minutes ago, sagnam said:

Did you read the posts? He has been out snapped by Raymond all year. I am judging him based off not being better than Raymond. That’s a big deal, Raymond is not a very talented receiver. Maybe he will be used more next year! I can’t wait for next year to talk about all the players on the roster that will be valuable the year after.

Did you read my posts? HE'S A ROOKIE 3rd round receiver who was touted as being raw coming out of college. The issue is your expectations, not the player. I'm going to give it more time before calling him a bust, I've seen enough talent in him with his 3 TD catches this season and that really tough other catch today to know that there's some talent to be harnessed.

[Tenacious D]

Are we really complaining about the rookie that scored today? 

[Biff Mayhem]

1 hour ago, TP_Fan said:

8 game losing streak in those uniforms. 

I’ve never liked those uniforms. 

[Nate7474]

There is one major flaw that I see with the Holmes/Campbell leadership and it’s by far the most annoying thing for me. Its that they are both stubborn to a fault and they are not going to make changes to the game plan based upon availability of players. Campbell is also not going to change his FG vs go for it approach either based on it. The amount of time that I see us go for it straight up the middle like we still have last years line is infuriating. Also he should have taken the points and got to 7 down. Next drive we can choose to go for it on 4th even after the sack knowing we still only need one score instead of being forced to kick the field goal there. Head coach calling plays is brutal for clock management strategy which I already consider one of the weaker attributes for Dan. Too many hats cause for slow decisions and I would still rather have Morton calling plays. It’s not like the offense has improved. 
 

This team is going to have a hard time making the playoffs this year I think. just too many injuries/weaknesses to overcome at this point. However the talk of a closed window is just dumb. This is a very talented roster that is just a couple players away at key positions on the line to be exactly where they were last year and no one is coming out of their prime yet. 

[Kacie]

27 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Did you read my posts? HE'S A ROOKIE 3rd round receiver who was touted as being raw coming out of college. The issue is your expectations, not the player. I'm going to give it more time before calling him a bust, I've seen enough talent in him with his 3 TD catches this season and that really tough other catch today to know that there's some talent to be harnessed.

I think that's the issue.  At least for me it is.  We gave up multiple picks to move up to get a guy who's raw and a work in progress? I didn't like it at the time and even less so now. The pass catching is one thing, but his blocking is atrocious. I don't understand why they aren't in win now mode. 

[Kacie]

6 minutes ago, Nate7474 said:

There is one major flaw that I see with the Holmes/Campbell leadership and it’s by far the most annoying thing for me. Its that they are both stubborn to a fault and they are not going to make changes to the game plan based upon availability of players. Campbell is also not going to change his FG vs go for it approach either based on it. The amount of time that I see us go for it straight up the middle like we still have last years line is infuriating. Also he should have taken the points and got to 7 down. Next drive we can choose to go for it on 4th even after the sack knowing we still only need one score instead of being forced to kick the field goal there. Head coach calling plays is brutal for clock management strategy which I already consider one of the weaker attributes for Dan. Too many hats cause for slow decisions and I would still rather have Morton calling plays. It’s not like the offense has improved. 
 

This team is going to have a hard time making the playoffs this year I think. just too many injuries/weaknesses to overcome at this point. However the talk of a closed window is just dumb. This is a very talented roster that is just a couple players away at key positions on the line to be exactly where they were last year and no one is coming out of their prime yet. 

Agree with the first part, disagree with the second.   Not necessarily saying the window is closed, but there's no guarantees in sports.  Goff isn't young. The offensive line needs a rebuild.  Still no pass rush. The secondary is decimated every year.  But the salary cap looks good 5 years from now.

[Motown Bombers]

15 minutes ago, Nate7474 said:

There is one major flaw that I see with the Holmes/Campbell leadership and it’s by far the most annoying thing for me. Its that they are both stubborn to a fault and they are not going to make changes to the game plan based upon availability of players. Campbell is also not going to change his FG vs go for it approach either based on it. The amount of time that I see us go for it straight up the middle like we still have last years line is infuriating. Also he should have taken the points and got to 7 down. Next drive we can choose to go for it on 4th even after the sack knowing we still only need one score instead of being forced to kick the field goal there. Head coach calling plays is brutal for clock management strategy which I already consider one of the weaker attributes for Dan. Too many hats cause for slow decisions and I would still rather have Morton calling plays. It’s not like the offense has improved. 
 

This team is going to have a hard time making the playoffs this year I think. just too many injuries/weaknesses to overcome at this point. However the talk of a closed window is just dumb. This is a very talented roster that is just a couple players away at key positions on the line to be exactly where they were last year and no one is coming out of their prime yet. 

Lol Campbell is one of the best at clock management. The defense gets the stop and the Lions have the ball to end the game. 

[Motown Bombers]

9 minutes ago, Kacie said:

Agree with the first part, disagree with the second.   Not necessarily saying the window is closed, but there's no guarantees in sports.  Goff isn't young. The offensive line needs a rebuild.  Still no pass rush. The secondary is decimated every year.  But the salary cap looks good 5 years from now.

Goff just turned 31. He’s got at least 5 years of high level play left. 

[TP_Fan]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Lol Campbell is one of the best at clock management. The defense gets the stop and the Lions have the ball to end the game. 

Campbell has been atrocious with clock management since he took over play calling.  

[Nate7474]

28 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Lol Campbell is one of the best at clock management. The defense gets the stop and the Lions have the ball to end the game. 

Honestly he’s really not but since it is objective I can only state my reasons for this. He often goes to half without using his timeouts when there was an opportunity to use them for potential points. They often are slow at making decisions on when to challenge or not to challenge allowing teams to quick snap and get away with a bad play.  Currently we are having a problem with breaking the huddle quick enough to allow for Goff to read the defense. Today there’s examples of using the run game down 2 scores with under 5 minutes left in the game. I just believe it is a weakness of higher he needs consistently work on and it’s gotten a lot worse n the last couple weeks while he is calling plays. 

[Nate7474]

40 minutes ago, Kacie said:

Agree with the first part, disagree with the second.   Not necessarily saying the window is closed, but there's no guarantees in sports.  Goff isn't young. The offensive line needs a rebuild.  Still no pass rush. The secondary is decimated every year.  But the salary cap looks good 5 years from now.

Goff has no skills that are likely to decline much with age at least in the near term. His decline in play recently has nothing to do with his skills declining and everything to do with his athletic limitations specifically with handling middle pressure. He is a surgeon and extremely smart when given time. I am sure the organization has seen this and will address it when they can this offseason. 

[Adullin]

The lions did not addresses the off season needs.  The need for offense line support and defensive line support.  Football is that simple. On to basketball and hockey 

[Nate7474]

57 minutes ago, Kacie said:

I think that's the issue.  At least for me it is.  We gave up multiple picks to move up to get a guy who's raw and a work in progress? I didn't like it at the time and even less so now. The pass catching is one thing, but his blocking is atrocious. I don't understand why they aren't in win now mode. 

I don’t believe there is a win now mode in the NFL. Holmes and Campbell want to be in win forever mode. This is a foreign concept to Lions fans so wanting to be all in makes sense.

I am much more interested in being an organization that has an opportunity every season, even if they start to look like they're falling out of the running like right now, are still playing winning football overall. 

[Nate7474]

Just now, Adullin said:

The lions did not addresses the off season needs.  The need for offense line support and defensive line support.  Football is that simple. On to basketball and hockey 

They drafted 2 olineman this year and 2 last year. They also signed a DT and resigned multiple DLineman last year. You can disagree with their choices but not addressing it is a wrong take. 
 

I will say 2 things to your point, that relying on Davenport to supply pressure opposite of Hutch was stupid and relying on Glasgow for anything other than a backup veteran presence was also dumb. However, I believe they didn’t know Ragnow was retiring because he has hinted at that in multiple off seasons and Glasgow would’ve been the backup at all 3 interior positions. 

[Motown Bombers]

40 minutes ago, Nate7474 said:

Honestly he’s really not but since it is objective I can only state my reasons for this. He often goes to half without using his timeouts when there was an opportunity to use them for potential points. They often are slow at making decisions on when to challenge or not to challenge allowing teams to quick snap and get away with a bad play.  Currently we are having a problem with breaking the huddle quick enough to allow for Goff to read the defense. Today there’s examples of using the run game down 2 scores with under 5 minutes left in the game. I just believe it is a weakness of higher he needs consistently work on and it’s gotten a lot worse n the last couple weeks while he is calling plays. 

If the defense holds, the Lions get the ball with over two minutes left and the final possession. That was excellent clock management. 

[TP_Fan]

Dallas is gonna score 100 against this lions defense.  Zero chance of winning next week.  Shepard has to go. 

[Nate7474]

13 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If the defense holds, the Lions get the ball with over two minutes left and the final possession. That was excellent clock management. 

If the defense didn’t hold, which it didn’t and we had 4 minutes left like we should have GreenBay likely punts on that 4th down or has to get atleast another 1st down or two to run time out which is a much larger margin of error. My point still stands that he mismanaged the final two times we had the ball but again this is in my opinion. 

[Sports_Freak]

The better teams have strong offensive and defensive lines. The Lions don't. I don't care how many players Brad drafted or signed, they were not players who would make our lines strong. There's zero pressure on opposing quarterbacks and Goff is getting totally hammered several times a game. So this off-season, Brad needs to find the right combination of players to make our lines great again. Look at the moves Dallas, Philly and Green Bay made. They ALL improved mid-season by making great trades. The window, for this season, is closed. An All-Pro center coming out of retirement for the last 4 or 5 games isnt enough. 

[Mr.TaterSalad]

What a crock of horse**** from the league. 

[Shinzaki]

Hutch and Alim are not playing at pre injury levels.  The IOL has been trashed by injuries.  It's frustrating 

It will be even more frustrating if the IOL gets healthy and the offense starts clicking after it no longer matters

[Sports_Freak]

4 hours ago, sagnam said:

He’s the 3rd/4th option now? He should be the 2nd option at worst now.

Wow. When Teslaa practices, they give him certain routes to run. 3rd and 4th string routes. He doesn't practice the St Brown, LaPorta or Jamo routes. Kennedy has been around for a few years and been at training camps. So he knows the routes. Watch Teslaa get more practice as a #2 receiver this week. He should see more action against Dallas. We're lucky to have him.

[Sports_Freak]

4 hours ago, sagnam said:

Did you read the posts? He has been out snapped by Raymond all year. I am judging him based off not being better than Raymond. That’s a big deal, Raymond is not a very talented receiver. Maybe he will be used more next year! I can’t wait for next year to talk about all the players on the roster that will be valuable the year after.

Do you understand football? TeSlaa is a rookie. Raymond has been around for several years. I would expect the Lions to have more routes for Raymond as well as Goff having more confidence in a receiver he's known for years over a rookie he's only known for months. I repeat, the Lions are lucky to have TeSlaa.