chasfh Posted July 5 Posted July 5 6 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: In other fantastic news, CB Bucknor and Laz Diaz are both retiring after this year. Thank you ABS. Thank you so much. Just need Hunter Wendelstedt for the hat trick 1 Quote
papalawrence Posted July 5 Posted July 5 Vladimir Guerrero Jr's ops is .693 and his ops+ is 91. Think his contract will age well? Quote
chasfh Posted July 5 Posted July 5 8 minutes ago, papalawrence said: Vladimir Guerrero Jr's ops is .693 and his ops+ is 91. Think his contract will age well? As to the big question, nobody with a contract through his age 40 season ages well into it. As for what it means for this season, he's not squaring up the ball like he did last and he is chasing a bit more, perhaps out of frustration. As a result he's not hitting home tuns like he normally does, which is a big part of his game. His mission will be to gut his way through this and figure out what changes he needs to make to get back on the horse and get great contact leading to great results. I think he has a good chance to do that. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted July 5 Posted July 5 34 minutes ago, chasfh said: nobody with a contract through his age 40 season ages well into it. unless you have Jim Thome or Nelson Cruz. If some team ever figures out how to look at a guy at 30 and know if he'll still be productive at 40 they should really clean up. Quote
chasfh Posted July 5 Posted July 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: unless you have Jim Thome or Nelson Cruz. If some team ever figures out how to look at a guy at 30 and know if he'll still be productive at 40 they should really clean up. Sure, it would be great to have that kind of crystal ball, although we know that teams like the Blue Jays don't sign guys like Vlad Guerrero to 14-year contracts because they expect 14 years of top production from him. They sign guys like Vlad Guerrero because they expect seven or eight years of top production from him, and hope for maybe ten or eleven years. They full expect they won't get a full 14 years of top production out of him. So why would a team like the Blue Jays agree to sign the Vlads of the world to 14-year contracts instead of 7-to-8-year contracts, or even 10-to-11-year contracts? Because if they try to offer him seven or eight years, or even ten or eleven years, they will lose him to some other team that will sign him for 14 years with the expectation that they will get those seven or eight years of top production while hoping for ten or eleven themselves. The extra dead years? That's the price of signing certain A#1 free agents in certain markets. Edited July 5 by chasfh Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 5 hours ago, chasfh said: Sure, it would be great to have that kind of crystal ball, although we know that teams like the Blue Jays don't sign guys like Vlad Guerrero to 14-year contracts because they expect 14 years of top production from him. They sign guys like Vlad Guerrero because they expect seven or eight years of top production from him, and hope for maybe ten or eleven years. They full expect they won't get a full 14 years of top production out of him. So why would a team like the Blue Jays agree to sign the Vlads of the world to 14-year contracts instead of 7-to-8-year contracts, or even 10-to-11-year contracts? Because if they try to offer him seven or eight years, or even ten or eleven years, they will lose him to some other team that will sign him for 14 years with the expectation that they will get those seven or eight years of top production while hoping for ten or eleven themselves. The extra dead years? That's the price of signing certain A#1 free agents in certain markets. If they don’t sign him to a 14 year deal, he will sign a 6 year deal with NY/LA/BOS Quote
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Posted July 6 5 hours ago, chasfh said: Sure, it would be great to have that kind of crystal ball, although we know that teams like the Blue Jays don't sign guys like Vlad Guerrero to 14-year contracts because they expect 14 years of top production from him. They sign guys like Vlad Guerrero because they expect seven or eight years of top production from him, and hope for maybe ten or eleven years. They full expect they won't get a full 14 years of top production out of him. So why would a team like the Blue Jays agree to sign the Vlads of the world to 14-year contracts instead of 7-to-8-year contracts, or even 10-to-11-year contracts? Because if they try to offer him seven or eight years, or even ten or eleven years, they will lose him to some other team that will sign him for 14 years with the expectation that they will get those seven or eight years of top production while hoping for ten or eleven themselves. The extra dead years? That's the price of signing certain A#1 free agents in certain markets. But that's exactly the reason I say give Skubal 10 years. 3 to 5 years as an ace. A sure #1. One of the best pitchers in baseball. And then 3 to 5 years as a top 3 pitcher in our rotation. If the price of that is 2 or 3 ineffective seasons, so be it. In 3 years, whatever he's making will be a bargain anyway. Starting pitchers, good starting pitchers, will soon be getting $50 million+ a season. Pay the man, it's not our money. Quote
Nate7474 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 17 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: But that's exactly the reason I say give Skubal 10 years. 3 to 5 years as an ace. A sure #1. One of the best pitchers in baseball. And then 3 to 5 years as a top 3 pitcher in our rotation. If the price of that is 2 or 3 ineffective seasons, so be it. In 3 years, whatever he's making will be a bargain anyway. Starting pitchers, good starting pitchers, will soon be getting $50 million+ a season. Pay the man, it's not our money. The thing is that it is our money eventually, you think the owners are going to eat the cost? The the problem with these labor dispute is eventually the ones who pay are the fans and the product put in front of us. Quote
papalawrence Posted July 6 Posted July 6 8 hours ago, chasfh said: As to the big question, nobody with a contract through his age 40 season ages well into it. As for what it means for this season, he's not squaring up the ball like he did last and he is chasing a bit more, perhaps out of frustration. As a result he's not hitting home tuns like he normally does, which is a big part of his game. His mission will be to gut his way through this and figure out what changes he needs to make to get back on the horse and get great contact leading to great results. I think he has a good chance to do that. Great hitter. 14 year contract. Overweight. Only 27. Lifetime ops .848. I just have a gut feeling he might be a 32-33 cliff guy. Like you said, they had to or risk losing him. After watching Miggy I wouldn't have gone there. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 (edited) 3 minutes ago, papalawrence said: Great hitter. 14 year contract. Overweight. Only 27. Lifetime ops .848. I just have a gut feeling he might be a 32-33 cliff guy. Like you said, they had to or risk losing him. After watching Miggy I wouldn't have gone there. I feel like Miggy would’ve been great through his last season if he didn’t play through that injury prior to the rebuild. I understand why he did and respect the effort, but that really sapped his power. The contact skills were still there at the end. Edited July 6 by monkeytargets39 1 Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: But that's exactly the reason I say give Skubal 10 years. 3 to 5 years as an ace. A sure #1. One of the best pitchers in baseball. And then 3 to 5 years as a top 3 pitcher in our rotation. If the price of that is 2 or 3 ineffective seasons, so be it. In 3 years, whatever he's making will be a bargain anyway. Starting pitchers, good starting pitchers, will soon be getting $50 million+ a season. Pay the man, it's not our money. I say trade him regardless of our status in the standings. Don’t wanna see us drop 300-400 million on him at this point. I don’t think he will age well at all. If we are going to make a playoff run this year, it’ll be because the rest of the rotation continues to pitch well and the offense/bullpen step up—not because we have Skubal. Edited July 6 by monkeytargets39 Quote
NorthWoods Posted July 6 Posted July 6 33 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: I say trade him regardless of our status in the standings. Don’t wanna see us drop 300-400 million on him at this point. I don’t think he will age well at all. If we are going to make a playoff run this year, it’ll be because the rest of the rotation continues to pitch well and the offense/bullpen step up—not because we have Skubal. Absolutely right. Save the $400M, rebuild our outfield from the Dodgers or whatever team. We'll win without him. Don't listen to the Harris worshippers that want to sign him. Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 6 Posted July 6 Wonder if the Tigers make a full court press to make their best effort to try and re-sign him prior to the deadline? At least they would know, and a leaked report to McCosky or another member of the Tigers PR team would take some heat off of trading him with the fan base. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 2 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: If they don’t sign him to a 14 year deal, he will sign a 6 year deal with NY/LA/BOS Boston has not been doing a lot of long-term deals in recent years. Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 6 Posted July 6 I also think the Tigers should hold on to Mize and offer him the QO. It would impede his free agency and making $22M (I think he’s between $6-7M this season). Might make it worth his while to come back for another year. 1 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 I don't know if you can take Manfred at his word, but he claims ownership is united on there being a cap in the next CBA. While that seems like a pie in the sky claim, if it's true that the rich team have bought all the other owners support by giving them true revenue sharing, that could produce enough solidarity to buckle the MLBPA. Now I don't know if any of what I just wrote will turn out to be true, but if the owners believe it will be or could be, I have a hard time seeing anyone being offered a 'make a new precedent' contract before the next CBA is in place. Quote
Tenacious D Posted July 6 Posted July 6 57 minutes ago, papalawrence said: Great hitter. 14 year contract. Overweight. Only 27. Lifetime ops .848. I just have a gut feeling he might be a 32-33 cliff guy. Like you said, they had to or risk losing him. After watching Miggy I wouldn't have gone there. They probably should have traded him. He was elite for a few years, but already has showed signs of decline. But many stars are having off years, including Cal Raleigh, Fernando Tatis Jr, Bo Bichette, Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Willy Adames to name a few. Quote
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Posted July 6 8 hours ago, Nate7474 said: The thing is that it is our money eventually, you think the owners are going to eat the cost? The the problem with these labor dispute is eventually the ones who pay are the fans and the product put in front of us. I was thinking maybe the fans need to start a gofundme for Chris? 🤣🤣 A billionaire could pay the Tiger payroll just on the interest of his loot. Quote
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Posted July 6 7 hours ago, NorthWoods said: Absolutely right. Save the $400M, rebuild our outfield from the Dodgers or whatever team. We'll win without him. Don't listen to the Harris worshippers that want to sign him. Lol...@chas...you hear that? Now I'm a Harris worshipper. Scoot over, would you? 😊😆 Quote
Sports_Freak Posted July 6 Posted July 6 7 hours ago, Tenacious D said: I also think the Tigers should hold on to Mize and offer him the QO. It would impede his free agency and making $22M (I think he’s between $6-7M this season). Might make it worth his while to come back for another year. I dont know...he would be chancing injury. He looked really disgusted coming off the mound yesterday. Like he really didnt want out of the game. I think hes gone. If...he stays halfway healthy. Big if... Quote
gehringer_2 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said: I dont know...he would be chancing injury. He looked really disgusted coming off the mound yesterday. That's pretty std for Casey - always been that way with him. Of course that could also be because he's hasn't liked his manager from the beginning either. 🤷♀️ Quote
chasfh Posted July 6 Posted July 6 12 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said: If they don’t sign him to a 14 year deal, he will sign a 6 year deal with NY/LA/BOS Were those the only other offers he had? Quote
chasfh Posted July 6 Posted July 6 11 hours ago, Nate7474 said: The thing is that it is our money eventually, you think the owners are going to eat the cost? The the problem with these labor dispute is eventually the ones who pay are the fans and the product put in front of us. Businesses can only charge us consumers what they think we will be willing to pay, irrespective of what their costs are. Quote
Tiger337 Posted July 6 Posted July 6 2 minutes ago, chasfh said: Businesses can only charge us consumers what they think we will be willing to pay, irrespective of what their costs are. no more and no less Quote
chasfh Posted July 6 Posted July 6 11 hours ago, papalawrence said: Great hitter. 14 year contract. Overweight. Only 27. Lifetime ops .848. I just have a gut feeling he might be a 32-33 cliff guy. Like you said, they had to or risk losing him. After watching Miggy I wouldn't have gone there. Totally agree. His body type suggests he might not have a late age career at all, let alone a productive one. Although David Ortiz was a humongous fatass who had a good late career. Adrian Beltre was kind of a load, too. Not for nothing, Skubal himself is carrying a spare tire, although it’s probably different for pitchers. Quote
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