Kevin McGonigle is...

[SoCalTiger]

Ok so the argument against McGonigle making the team is he needs AB’s against off speed pitches but will he actually even see any good pitchers in AAA that can command those pitches??

I think he just has to go through the learning curve in the Majors to adjust and he has the swing, set up and mental strength to do so and the Tigers know this  

He will be in San Diego  

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan Gilmore]

Kevin McGonigle is a sign of how far the team has come in the last few years. We are discussing him making the team on OD as a kid, in the bad old days we would have been focused, at least a little, on the possibility that an Austin Slater, or Julks, would be a contributor. 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Ok so the argument against McGonigle making the team is he needs AB’s against off speed pitches but will he actually even see any good pitchers in AAA that can command those pitches??

It will be interesting to see how easy it will be for pitchers to get a guy out with a lot of breaking stuff who won't swing out of the strike zone. Even in the majors there aren't that many guys who can throw breaking stuff consistently in the zone.

Edited 23 hours ago by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

...is apparently going to have one less competitor for ROY. Konner Griffin re-assigned by Pittsburgh.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/48271759/pirates-reassign-heralded-prospect-konnor-griffin-minor-league-camp

[4hzglory]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

...is apparently going to have one less competitor for ROY. Konner Griffin re-assigned by Pittsburgh.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/48271759/pirates-reassign-heralded-prospect-konnor-griffin-minor-league-camp

He wasn’t a competitor anyway, there are AL and NL ROY

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

He wasn’t a competitor anyway, there are AL and NL ROY

D'OH!

good point! 

I suppose Pittsburgh being Pittsburgh they won't burn the year even if they think he could be a candidate.

Sure they lose the year anyway if he won anyway, but a team can always delay a call-up long enough the player doesn't get enough AB to be likely to win, and if your team is not likely challenging for a playoff.....

Edited 21 hours ago by gehringer_2

[4hzglory]

38 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

D'OH!

good point! 

I suppose Pittsburgh being Pittsburgh they won't burn the year even if they think he could be a candidate.

Sure they lose the year anyway if he won anyway, but a team can always delay a call-up long enough the player doesn't get enough AB to be likely to win, and if your team is not likely challenging for a playoff.....

All he has to be is top 3 though to get the year service time.  Last year’s AL winner wasn’t called up til June I believe?

He didn’t hit/get on base near as well as McGonigle did, but they were already “burned “ with Skenes losing the pick and the service time.  It seems foolish to me, especially in their situation if they think he will be up mid-year.  If they plan to wait until August and keep his rookie status, it’s obviously a different story.  (By then Rainer will pass him for #1 prospect in the game 🤪)

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, 4hzglory said:

He wasn’t a competitor anyway, there are AL and NL ROY

Trey Yeasavage starts the season on the IL,  he WAS a competitor.  

[Jason_R]

Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t believe the door is closed on Skubal. 

Call up McGonigle and demonstrate to Skubal that Dee-troit baseball is a serious contender for the foreseeable future. 

[tiger2022]

Griffin is also only 19.  He's 6-4 and 225 so he's a big dude.  He absolutely crushes the ball when he hits it.  Pirates will waste another generational talent.  He will be a future Yankee.

Edited 17 hours ago by tiger2022

[Tenacious D]

2 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t believe the door is closed on Skubal. 

Call up McGonigle and demonstrate to Skubal that Dee-troit baseball is a serious contender for the foreseeable future. 

This.  I think all things equal Skubal would like to finish his career as a Tiger.  

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t believe the door is closed on Skubal. 

Call up McGonigle and demonstrate to Skubal that Dee-troit baseball is a serious contender for the foreseeable future. 

 

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

This.  I think all things equal Skubal would like to finish his career as a Tiger.  

 

I'm sorry...

But you guys are NOT correct.

Boras and Skubal want to SET the market for a pitcher of Skubal's excellence. For this level of pitching dominance.

That's it.

It has nothing to do with Skubal remaining a Tiger for life because that's not his goal. (IMO).

If Harris wants to hand out the largest contract ever for a starting pitcher... Skubal will be a Tiger.

If not, he won't.

It has never been otherwise.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

It has nothing to do with Skubal remaining a Tiger for life because that's not his goal. (IMO).

I agree '84. Which team is not going to be the major driver of the decision - it will be the value of the contract.

The Tigers are/will be as much in the running as any other team, A player returning to the same team is not at all at cross purpose to Boras/Skubal establishing a new contract level, only taking less than max value would. So it won't be Skubal putting the Tigers out of consideration, the Tigers will take themselves out if they decide they can't/won't make a competitive offer. I think that latter is inevitably what will happen. While anything is possible, esp since something completely new could conceivably come out of the new CBA that changes things (but note that 'conceivable' does not imply at all likely), I don't see Chris Ilitch walking away from the 'sustainability' mantra he recites at every chance and I don't see how paying Skubal what some team surely will offer would be within Chris I's version of 'sustainability' for the Tigers..

Of course at the end of day, to the fans, whether the player excluded the team from consideration or the team excluded the player from consideration is a distinction without a difference to the outcome.

[tiger2022]

3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

 

I'm sorry...

But you guys are NOT correct.

Boras and Skubal want to SET the market for a pitcher of Skubal's excellence. For this level of pitching dominance.

That's it.

It has nothing to do with Skubal remaining a Tiger for life because that's not his goal. (IMO).

If Harris wants to hand out the largest contract ever for a starting pitcher... Skubal will be a Tiger.

If not, he won't.

It has never been otherwise.

This is the correct answer

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t believe the door is closed on Skubal. 

Call up McGonigle and demonstrate to Skubal that Dee-troit baseball is a serious contender for the foreseeable future. 

I have never closed the door on Skubal, either. He may not even want to go to Dodgers. Unless something dramatic happens during the season that changes the calculation, I think the possibility of his return will remain an open question until the decision is actually made.

It’s hard for us to get our arms fully around this idea, because of the way we’d been conditioned during the years prior to his arrival, but Scott Harris is not predictable as Al Avila was. We can’t know what Harris is going to decide months in advance, and he won’t blab about it in any event.

Edited 5 hours ago by chasfh

[1984Echoes]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

... Which team is not going to be the major driver of the decision - it will be the value of the contract. The Tigers are/will be as much in the running as any other team, A player returning to the same team is not at all at cross purpose to Boras/Skubal establishing a new contract level, only taking less than max value would. So it won't be Skubal putting the Tigers out of consideration, the Tigers will take themselves out if they decide they can't/won't make a competitive offer. I think that latter is inevitably what will happen. While ...

Bingo.

 

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

...  I don't see Chris Ilitch walking away from the 'sustainability' mantra he recites at every chance and I don't see how paying Skubal what some team surely will offer would be within Chris I's version of 'sustainability' for the Tigers...

I believe that there is only one alternative idea that keeps Skubal in Detroit:

Harris comes up with a plan to keep salary below the Apron whilst also signing Skubal at the Market Price. And Ilitch says "Do It. Future pitcher's health be damned."

Is that a likely scenario?

I think it NOT.

However, if that were a winning scenario, what would it look like?

"Chris, after this season, we'll sign Skubal to the contract he wants. We will also let Torres, Mize, Rogers and Flaherty walk as free agents and replace them with kids. And we will trade Green, Tork and Carpenter and replace them with kids."

Just a WAG...

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I agree '84. Which team is not going to be the major driver of the decision - it will be the value of the contract.

The Tigers are/will be as much in the running as any other team, A player returning to the same team is not at all at cross purpose to Boras/Skubal establishing a new contract level, only taking less than max value would. So it won't be Skubal putting the Tigers out of consideration, the Tigers will take themselves out if they decide they can't/won't make a competitive offer. I think that latter is inevitably what will happen. While anything is possible, esp since something completely new could conceivably come out of the new CBA that changes things (but note that 'conceivable' does not imply at all likely), I don't see Chris Ilitch walking away from the 'sustainability' mantra he recites at every chance and I don't see how paying Skubal what some team surely will offer would be within Chris I's version of 'sustainability' for the Tigers..

Of course at the end of day, to the fans, whether the player excluded the team from consideration or the team excluded the player from consideration is a distinction without a difference to the outcome.

I think which organization makes the offer matters more than people think. If Arte Moreno were to offer Skubal 10/500 to come to Anaheim and the best offer he were to get otherwise is 8/400 from the Tigers or some (other) perennial contender, I’d bet he'd take the smaller offer to give himself a better chance to win a ring. In a case like that, the marginal utility of the extra hundred million dollars would simply not be enough to consign himself to the second division for the remainder of his career. He's not Mike Trout, after all. 😏

Edited 4 hours ago by chasfh

[Motor City Sonics]

Might as well start envisioning Skubal in a Dodgers or Mets uniform.    The upcoming labor stoppage (and likely lost 2027 season) won't do anything to stop that. 

[monkeytargets39]

The CBA is the hang up on us making a big offer to Skubal before the offseason.  That’s it.  That’s the reason.

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Might as well start envisioning Skubal in a Dodgers or Mets uniform.    The upcoming labor stoppage (and likely lost 2027 season) won't do anything to stop that. 

I'm not so sure either of those teams want to pay a stupid contract to a pitcher either. He's not getting 500 or 400 million in my estimation. Over 30 with two previous arm repairs and the fragility of pitchers will temper his upside. He's not an every day player. Plus the Dodgers are doing just fine without him. 

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I think which organization makes the offer matters more than people think. If Arte Moreno were to offer Skubal 10/500 to come to Anaheim and the best offer he were to get otherwise is 8/400 from the Tigers or some (other) perennial contender, I’d bet he'd take the smaller offer to give himself a better chance to win a ring. In a case like that, the marginal utility of the extra hundred million dollars would simply not be enough to consign himself to the second division for the remainder of his career. He's not Mike Trout, after all. 😏

Sure, it's reasonable to assume that he would only consider the subset teams he regarded as competitive. Of course that doesn't mean he wouldn't use an offer from a team he had no intention of going to as leverage!

Edited 3 hours ago by gehringer_2

[SoCalTiger]

12 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

 

I'm sorry...

But you guys are NOT correct.

Boras and Skubal want to SET the market for a pitcher of Skubal's excellence. For this level of pitching dominance.

That's it.

It has nothing to do with Skubal remaining a Tiger for life because that's not his goal. (IMO).

If Harris wants to hand out the largest contract ever for a starting pitcher... Skubal will be a Tiger.

If not, he won't.

It has never been otherwise.

I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Pure Mercenary driven by Boras and Tarik's " duty to the union/players to raise the bar" and other such BS. Tarik isn't going to make the decision Boras will. Boras has Skubal wrapped round his finger and will play him like a puppet especially after the labor angst spoils the atmosphere. 

Enjoy the year, hope he isn't begging out of every game after 85 pitches , and show him the door. 

[ben9753]

I'll never get the hate people have for Boras. It's big money business, 100's of millions of dollars on the line. His job is to make his clients the most money possible, and he's obviously very good at his job. Why does he get so much hate?

[SoCalTiger]

1 minute ago, ben9753 said:

I'll never get the hate people have for Boras. It's big money business, 100's of millions of dollars on the line. His job is to make his clients the most money possible, and he's obviously very good at his job. Why does he get so much hate?

No hate from me. Total respect for Boras. Capitalism at it's finest and I totally agree and would do the same. It's just good business as well to recognize what's happening and find better VALUE elsewhere. 

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, ben9753 said:

I'll never get the hate people have for Boras. It's ...

I don't hate Boras.

I just understand the reality of dealing with him.

Dombrowski worked really well with Boras...

And signed several top-of-the-market (at that time) contracts with his clients.

No bones with him at all...

I just know that Boras and Skubal will command, and 99.9% receive, a top-of-the-market contract.

Will the Tigers/ Harris/ Ilitch do that...?

Maybe, but I think that's a very tiny window.

IMO.