05/19/2026 6:40p EDT Cleveland Guardians at Detroit Tigers

[casimir]

[chasfh]

4 hours ago, casimir said:

Does this reflect the expected return from a trade of Jack Flaherty?

[kdog]

Quote

“If we’re getting frustrated now, then we’re late,” Hinch said, asked about the long list of underperforming players. “Where we’re at, we’re going to have to stay together, work together and really dig ourselves out of this one step at a time. But I worried about frustration a long time ago. This has been a grind for a lot of these guys, and you’re right: Their track record is not matching what we’re getting, and that’s always tough.”

“I’m front and center, and I should be,” Hinch said. “I’m responsible for all the ins and outs of the team. I work tirelessly to try to find solutions. I get asked a lot about reactions and assessments, my opinion on things, and what I try to do is find solutions. That’s the manager’s role. … I try to lead by being a consistent leader. (Players) know what to expect coming in, and they know that the standards are high. But I’m in the trenches with them. Trying to find solutions doesn’t mean pointing blame or making unfair assessments. I’m in the trenches with them trying to be better at my job, (from) trying to find different ways to put them in successful positions to shouldering the blame when things aren’t going well. I’m the leader, and I got to find the solution.”

 

Edited 5 hours ago by kdog

[Sports_Freak]

Run the same lineup out there and expect different results? Or shake things up and try to send a message? Bench Tork? Sit Perez? And please....no more Short.

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, kdog said:

 

Is this his quote from last September? Or recent? It could be either....

[kdog]

10 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Run the same lineup out there and expect different results? Or shake things up and try to send a message? Bench Tork? Sit Perez? And please....no more Short.

There are no good choices here.

[Sports_Freak]

46 minutes ago, kdog said:

There are no good choices here.

I don't care so much for ever using Short at...short (😁). I say use McGonigle at SS and either Zach, Keith or Lee at 3rd. Even with a LH SP against us, Zack or Keith have better chances of getting on base. My shakeup attempt would have Zack in RF, Keith at 1st base, the kid at SS and Lee at 3rd. We need a 2nd baseman from Toledo?? The heck with the lefty-righty splits, it's obviously not working. And Tork needs some time down in Toledo. So Perez, Tork and Short benched. Addition by subtraction.

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I don't care so much for ever using Short at...short (😁). I say use McGonigle at SS and either Zach, Keith or Lee at 3rd. Even with a LH SP against us, Zack or Keith have better chances of getting on base. My shakeup attempt would have Zack in RF, Keith at 1st base, the kid at SS and Lee at 3rd. We need a 2nd baseman from Toledo?? The heck with the lefty-righty splits, it's obviously not working. And Tork needs some time down in Toledo. So Perez, Tork and Short benched. Addition by subtraction.

I'd like a report on whether Max Anderson can play 1st base. I know Colt's glove isn't the greatest in general but I'd almost rather see him at 3rd than 1st - he's never looked comfortable to me playing 1st - I wonder if/how much practice time he is putting in at 1b currently.

Edited 4 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'd like a report on whether Max Anderson can play 1st base. I know Colt's glove isn't the greatest in general but I'd almost rather see him at 3rd than 1st - he's never looked comfortable to me playing 1st - I wonder if/how much practice time he is putting in at 1b currently.

So put Keith at 3rd...Lee at 2nd. And find a 1st baseman...Toledo or a trade? Waiver wire?   Shake. Things. Up. No more Tork...no more Perez and no more Short.

[Tenacious D]

 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Run the same lineup out there and expect different results? Or shake things up and try to send a message? Bench Tork? Sit Perez? And please....no more Short.

What's the message in shaking things up when you've been doing everything according to logic and analytics for three years? Desperation?

[monkeytargets39]

This is what I want right now:

1.) Keith (3B)

2.) McGonigle (SS)

3.) Dingler (C)

4.) Greene (LF)

5.) Anderson (2B)

6.) Vierling (CF)

7.) Malgeri (RF)

8.) Jung (DH)

9.) Torkelson (1B)

Bench: McKinstry, Rogers, Jones, Lee

Torkelson and Keith still have ways to get on base even if the power isn’t there, so put them back to back—but if Tork can’t perform out of the nine hole then he goes to Toledo when Gleyber is back.

McGonigle needs to actually have chances to hit with guys on base….stop leading him off.  He hits a lot of balls down the right field line so if someone is on base ahead of him they can go first to third easily on a lot of McGs hits.

Dingler and Greene are the only real power threats—so you go Ding 3 and Riley 4 to break up the L/R stretch.

DFA Short and Vanasco, call up Anderson and Malgeri.  Send Wenceel Perez to Toledo.  See if these two guys can be a spark in the lineup.

Workman has been abysmal defensively and he’s striking out at almost a 45% clip.  Demote him back to Toledo and call up Jung—who can at least draw a walk and give us some defensive options to get Tork out of the lineup some days.  Keep Lee and McKinstry for defensive versatility and so we can use McKinstry in the outfield more for now.

Vierling is perfectly fine as the 4th outfielder and can play CF every day for now.  
 

Rotation: Valdez, Mize, Montero, Anderson, Bullpen Day.  
 

Bullpen: Flaherty (can be an opener), Hurter, Holton, Vest, Jansen, Finnegan, Smith, Seabold, Sommers.  Maybe Flaherty can reinvent himself as a short-inning guy.

DFA DeJesus now and leave the 40-man spot open for when Melton/JV need to come off the 60-day.  Holton can be next to go to Toledo.

 

 

Does this fix everything?  Probably not.  But insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.  Hold players accountable for their performance.  We are 1/3 of the way through the season.

[monkeytargets39]

16 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What's the message in shaking things up when you've been doing everything according to logic and analytics for three years? Desperation?

Yes.  At least until we get Torres/Baez/Carpenter back.  Then you can start playing analytics because we have major league level players to do that with.

[SoCalTiger]

Does McStinky have an injury that prevents him from playing shortstop ?

And Colt Keith is a DH only..and bat him first since he can't knock anyone home or until he does. But until the injured return we will have at least two black holes in the lineup. 

[Sports_Freak]

26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

What's the message in shaking things up when you've been doing everything according to logic and analytics for three years? Desperation?

Analytics arent working. Maybe theyll win an occasional game or so but long term? Playing the platoon of using Short and an ineffective Tork will get basically the same results as the last 60 games or so. We are we, about 40 games under .500 since last fall? How much data is needed?

[Sports_Freak]

17 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

This is what I want right now:

1.) Keith (3B)

2.) McGonigle (SS)

3.) Dingler (C)

4.) Greene (LF)

5.) Anderson (2B)

6.) Vierling (CF)

7.) Malgeri (RF)

8.) Jung (DH)

9.) Torkelson (1B)

Bench: McKinstry, Rogers, Jones, Lee

Torkelson and Keith still have ways to get on base even if the power isn’t there, so put them back to back—but if Tork can’t perform out of the nine hole then he goes to Toledo when Gleyber is back.

McGonigle needs to actually have chances to hit with guys on base….stop leading him off.  He hits a lot of balls down the right field line so if someone is on base ahead of him they can go first to third easily on a lot of McGs hits.

Dingler and Greene are the only real power threats—so you go Ding 3 and Riley 4 to break up the L/R stretch.

DFA Short and Vanasco, call up Anderson and Malgeri.  Send Wenceel Perez to Toledo.  See if these two guys can be a spark in the lineup.

Workman has been abysmal defensively and he’s striking out at almost a 45% clip.  Demote him back to Toledo and call up Jung—who can at least draw a walk and give us some defensive options to get Tork out of the lineup some days.  Keep Lee and McKinstry for defensive versatility and so we can use McKinstry in the outfield more for now.

Vierling is perfectly fine as the 4th outfielder and can play CF every day for now.  
 

Rotation: Valdez, Mize, Montero, Anderson, Bullpen Day.  
 

Bullpen: Flaherty (can be an opener), Hurter, Holton, Vest, Jansen, Finnegan, Smith, Seabold, Sommers.  Maybe Flaherty can reinvent himself as a short-inning guy.

DFA DeJesus now and leave the 40-man spot open for when Melton/JV need to come off the 60-day.  Holton can be next to go to Toledo.

 

 

Does this fix everything?  Probably not.  But insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results.  Hold players accountable for their performance.  We are 1/3 of the way through the season.

Mostly agree. If they can, find somebody with more upside than Jung though. If not, totally agree. This was something that should have been addressed last off-season, our collapse should have been enough of a reason to acquire some better bats. 

[monkeytargets39]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Mostly agree. If they can, find somebody with more upside than Jung though. If not, totally agree. This was something that should have been addressed last off-season, our collapse should have been enough of a reason to acquire some better bats. 

I don’t expect much out of Jung, but they haven’t really given him much of a legit chance—at least compared to a few other guys who continually underperform.  Jung can play 1B/3B if we need him to and has a good minor league track record of plate discipline.  We need that during a time when multiple legitimate starters are out.  There’s no reason to be playing Perez or Workman over Jung.

[Tiger337]

28 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Analytics arent working. Maybe theyll win an occasional game or so but long term? Playing the platoon of using Short and an ineffective Tork will get basically the same results as the last 60 games or so. We are we, about 40 games under .500 since last fall? How much data is needed?

Analytics is exactly what you want to use long term.  You lost that argument a long time ago.  I guess short-term, you could try different things, but there aren't a hell of a lot of options right now.

Or they could fire Hinch and Harris and bring in some old school guys that will shake things up and play the hunches?

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Tiger337

[monkeytargets39]

I don’t blame Hinch much for any of it.  All he can do is take the roster of guys that he has and try to put them in the best position to succeed.  His decisions make sense for the most part.  Injuries have really cramped his ability to do some of that though.

Even with Harris-  If you look at the team on paper, you’d think we’d have 3-4 legit power threats in Tork, Greene, Carpenter and Keith.  A good glove defensive catcher who is above average offensively.  A couple of guys who play high level defense up the middle in Javy and Meadows, a solid veteran bat in Torres, and the best positional prospect the Tigers have had since Al Kaline.  That SHOULD be enough.

Injuries have hurt—but the problem with Harris’ approach here has been that there’s no contingency on what to do if guys on the team regress at all.  The bench and 40-man depth is nothing but super one-dimensional guys, and the lack of making any trades to bring in guys with protectable skill sets and MLB caliber ceilings.  
 

It seems like all of our roster moves are due to someone coming off the disabled list or going on it.  There’s almost never a promotion or demotion based on performance.  
 

I’m mostly Harris positive, but my opinion of him as GM will be HIGHLY affected by how he handles this trade deadline and then the offseason (depending on lockout)

[IdahoBert]

I am not interested in calling guys up from the minors whom the organization believes require proper seasoning to play at an MLB level consonant with The Tigers’ Way. I’m not interested in acts of desperation derived from frustration. 

[Tiger337]

23 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I’m mostly Harris positive, but my opinion of him as GM will be HIGHLY affected by how he handles this trade deadline and then the offseason (depending on lockout)

I am very happy that Harris turned them into an analytic organization.  That is a huge step.  Whether or not he is just a run of the mill analytic GM or whether he is a really good analytic GM remains to be seen.  

I am not sure there is much he can do at the deadline, but, in general, I am waiting see how creative and aggressive he gets in the future.  

[monkeytargets39]

8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I am very happy that Harris turned them into an analytic organization.  That is a huge step.  Whether or not he is just a run of the mill analytic GM or whether he is a really good analytic GM remains to be seen.  

I am not sure there is much he can do at the deadline, but, in general, I am waiting see how creative and aggressive he gets in the future.  

Depending on how things shake out, I’m real curious to see what his plan for the pitching rotation is going to end up being once we get near the deadline if we aren’t trending back up towards a playoff run.

Obviously what happens with Skubal is critical, but what do we do with Mize?  He might actually have a ton of value at the deadline if he’s pitching like he has been due to his pay and future signability vs teams that will be in on Skubal.

If we end up down Skubal, Mize and then Flaherty…..  what on Earth do we do for next season?  Can we really just assume it’s going to work with Framber, Melton, Jobe, Olson and Keider?  If you think this year is bad, wait till next year when 3/5 of that rotation is on the DL all at the same time.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

What's the message in shaking things up when you've been doing everything according to logic and analytics for three years? Desperation?

Lashing out.

[monkeytargets39]

55 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

I am not interested in calling guys up from the minors whom the organization believes require proper seasoning to play at an MLB level consonant with The Tigers’ Way. I’m not interested in acts of desperation derived from frustration. 

Normally I’d agree, but with Skubal on his way out and Mize becoming a free agent as well…and having already dropped a big contract on Valdez….this is a season that needs to pay off  because there’s going to be a bit of rebuilding to do unless Illitch is going to pony up cash to keep these guys and run it back.  They built a team to win the division this year and it’s still early enough to right the ship.  I can see not calling Clark up, but other guys aren’t being looked at as major future pieces so it’s worth the risk of a stunted development.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I don’t blame Hinch much for any of it.  All he can do is take the roster of guys that he has and try to put them in the best position to succeed.  His decisions make sense for the most part.  Injuries have really cramped his ability to do some of that though.

Even with Harris-  If you look at the team on paper, you’d think we’d have 3-4 legit power threats in Tork, Greene, Carpenter and Keith.  A good glove defensive catcher who is above average offensively.  A couple of guys who play high level defense up the middle in Javy and Meadows, a solid veteran bat in Torres, and the best positional prospect the Tigers have had since Al Kaline.  That SHOULD be enough.

Injuries have hurt—but the problem with Harris’ approach here has been that there’s no contingency on what to do if guys on the team regress at all.  The bench and 40-man depth is nothing but super one-dimensional guys, and the lack of making any trades to bring in guys with protectable skill sets and MLB caliber ceilings.  
 

It seems like all of our roster moves are due to someone coming off the disabled list or going on it.  There’s almost never a promotion or demotion based on performance.  
 

I’m mostly Harris positive, but my opinion of him as GM will be HIGHLY affected by how he handles this trade deadline and then the offseason (depending on lockout)

I'm out of reactions, but Thanks.

The main thing I will push back on is the implication that Harris had (has) an open canvas to bring in any players he wants that remakes this organization in a 180 fashion immediately. There are no All-Stars or top prospects or even players well-rounded in every aspect of the game that he can just go out and acquire at low cost. The costs will be high, whether it's trading Max-plus for a top arm or bat, or spending big money on a free agent, and even then, free agents have agency, which means they can say no to however much money Harris/Ilitch at throw at them if they prefer a better (win-now) situation in a market more to their liking.

And for anyone who believes that other teams will definitely compete to empty out the top of their farm systems for two months of Skubal, try it in reverse: in a still-winnable division, we could use an elite pitcher ourselves.  The Diamondbacks are scuffling and might be willing to sell Corbin Burnes, the other elite pitcher who can opt for free agency this winter. Who in our system will you give up to get Burnes on board for the last two months and, hopefully, the playoffs?