05/19/2026 6:40p EDT Cleveland Guardians at Detroit Tigers

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

McGonigle is a nice little hitter but isn't going to provide any power.  He's on pace for 7 home runs.  He's not going to be a game changer, especially with a bunch of guys who can't hit around him.

The only reason I didn't like the Valdez signing is He's an average guy who relies on ground balls coming to a team with very limited range and defensive ability in the infield.

I don't understand the obsession with home runs.  I think he is a game changer...but he can't do it by himself.  Trout never could either and he hits plenty of home runs.  

[Tiger337]

26 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Ugh...first off, they signed Valdez BEFORE they had pitching injuries. Olson was still being counted on, so was an effective Flaherty. As well as Melton. So current injuries, while predictable, arent the reason they signed Valdez. But hitting WAS a known problem and that problem was ignored. You cant say McGonigle was their answer to our hitting because nobody knew he was even going to be on the team. Its like....one strawman argument after another.

So, they just should have assumed that there would be no pitching injuries?  Olson was not healthy at any point in the off-season and Melton was somewhat of an unknown.  You need at least 7 starters on your roster going into the season.  

Edited 2 hours ago by Tiger337

[NorthWoods]

43 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Ha-ha....are you kidding me? Seriously? Maybe we'll win and these guys can just....keep playig. I'm sure over the next 10 games, we may even win another one.  SMH

lol kidding.   After Riley that lineup is where rallies go to die.

[SoCalTiger]

Does anyone here think that if Tork and Keith were playing for the Guardians or Brewers or Rays that they would be performing better ? Am I wrong to feel that way ?

 

And McStinky must be injured to the point he can not play shortstop. No other reason Zack is here without his attack. 

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

So, they just should have assumed that there would be no pitching injuries?  Olson was not healthy at any point in the off-season and Melton was somewhat of an unknown.  You need at least 7 starters on your roster going into the season.  

A baseball team is all about building player/talent capital. If you are starting from a point where you don't have a lot, the resources available in a single off-season to collect more may not be enough for all you need. Likewise, until you can build up enough talent capital that you have more than you can put on the field at one time, trading is pretty much a zero sum game because it's hard not to end up giving up something you still need to get something you want. It's a long process, like building up your bank account, and the worst thing you can do for the long term is make some kind of splashy trade that actually moves you backwards by making your team older and shallower.

Edited 2 hours ago by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

55 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I didn't say everything was fine and wonderful.  What I am saying is that they would be a worse organization without analytics.

See Angels, Los Angeles.

[tiger2022]

49 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't understand the obsession with home runs.  I think he is a game changer...but he can't do it by himself.  Trout never could either and he hits plenty of home runs.  

Because a home run gives you instant scoring.  You don't need to rely on stringing two or three hits together by punch and judy hitters.  

[Tigermojo]

Detroit did more in the offseason than other AL Central teams. They can win the division. They won't give up until the last game is played. 

Things look bad right now but there are plenty of games left and Cleveland isn't some juggernaut boogeyman. 

[IdahoBert]

Vierling CF

McGonigle 3B

Jones, Jah DH

Dingler C

Greene, R LF

Torkelson 1B

Pérez, W RF

Lee, H 2B

Short SS

[IdahoBert]

So, the Tigers are going up against Parker Messick tonight, who is really good. So given the way baseball works the Tigers will probably win this game one way or another and then go on to lose 7 of their next 10 games.

Don’t blame me. Don’t kill the messenger. This is the kind of weird ass stuff that happens.

[Tiger337]

36 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

Because a home run gives you instant scoring.  You don't need to rely on stringing two or three hits together by punch and judy hitters.  

I understand that but other teams are able to score runs without a high home run total.  Milwaukee, Tampa Bay and Miami have fewer homers than the Tigers, but they rank in the top half of MLB in runs scored.  The difference is the get on base more often than the Tigers.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Tiger337

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't understand the obsession with home runs. 

sure - not everyone is going to hit 30 hr, but it's awfully nice if they can!

Of the 'simple' stats, the best correlate for run scoring is OPS. 

To finish a season with a 900 OPS in 650 PA, with 50 BB, 30 x 2B, and 30 HR, you still need to hit 328!

to do the same with 50 BB, 30 x 2B, but only 10 HR, you'd have to hit 377!

HR are good, very good. ⚾

The interesting question is what is the  optimum economic distribution of resources between the cost of power hitters and their limitations in other parts of the game (e.g. defense, speed, etc) vs run prevention (better pitchers etc). Different winning teams do get there different ways, but power hitting is one that often works.

The other advantage is that when you get into the playoffs and face pitchers with generally low WHIP, moving runners around gets proportionally harder.

All that said - McGonigle is fine.

Edited 47 minutes ago by gehringer_2

[monkeytargets39]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

The off-season. We needed hitting and spent, overspent, on pitching. We. Needed. Hitting. We. Signed. Pitching. Doesn't analytics say a team needs to score runs? Kinda basic baseball, no?

We signed Valdez because he was likely the best caliber pitcher we’d be able to acquire via free agency or trade as a potential fall back in case we lose Skubal.  It hasn’t paid off to this point, but it was a good move.

[monkeytargets39]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Does anyone here think that if Tork and Keith were playing for the Guardians or Brewers or Rays that they would be performing better ? Am I wrong to feel that way ?

 

And McStinky must be injured to the point he can not play shortstop. No other reason Zack is here without his attack. 

McKinstry isn’t playing SS much because McGonigle can (and they have Short to back him up there) and we have defensive issues elsewhere on the field right now.  We only really have three outfielders on the roster and McKinstrys versatility is helping cover that plus 2B and 3B.

[Sports_Freak]

Just now, monkeytargets39 said:

We signed Valdez because he was likely the best caliber pitcher we’d be able to acquire via free agency or trade as a potential fall back in case we lose Skubal.  It hasn’t paid off to this point, but it was a good move.

Yeah, I won't argue that. But we still had offensive issues to address that never were. Having enough depth to cover all of our injuries was/is impossible but seriously, the only thing we really did was retain Torres. A RH hitting corner outfielder woulda been nice. Or even a RH hitting DH type who could fill in at 1st base occasionally. I dont know who all was available but there had to be some help out there. 

[monkeytargets39]

29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

sure - not everyone is going to hit 30 hr, but it's awfully nice if they can!

Of the 'simple' stats, the best correlate for run scoring is OPS. 

To finish a season with a 900 OPS in 650 PA, with 50 BB, 30 x 2B, and 30 HR, you still need to hit 328!

to do the same with 50 BB, 30 x 2B, but only 10 HR, you'd have to hit 377!

HR are good, very good. ⚾

The interesting question is what is the  optimum economic distribution of resources between the cost of power hitters and their limitations in other parts of the game (e.g. defense, speed, etc) vs run prevention (better pitchers etc). Different winning teams do get there different ways, but power hitting is one that often works.

The other advantage is that when you get into the playoffs and face pitchers with generally low WHIP, moving runners around gets proportionally harder.

All that said - McGonigle is fine.

We’d be a title contending team if we had a .750 team ops.

[tiger2022]

46 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I understand that but other teams are able to score runs without a high home run total.  Milwaukee, Tampa Bay and Miami have fewer homers than the Tigers, but they rank in the top half of MLB in runs scored.  The difference is the get on base more often than the Tigers.  

Exactly.  If you are going to fill your roster up and give 350 ABs to guys like Zack McKinstry, Wenceel Pérez, Jahmai Jones etc you might as well just be resigned to the fact you are going to suck.  Roster construction matters and Harris sucks at it.

Honestly, one or maybe 2 guys of the Tigers 9 offensive regulars would play on Milwaukee.  And they have a better pitching staff to boot.

Edited 24 minutes ago by tiger2022

[monkeytargets39]

Just walk Ramirez.  Every time.

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Does anyone here think that if Tork and Keith were playing for the Guardians or Brewers or Rays that they would be performing better ? Am I wrong to feel that way ?

 

And McStinky must be injured to the point he can not play shortstop. No other reason Zack is here without his attack. 

Zach doesnt have the range to play SS. Maybe to fill on when there's an emergency, but that's about it.

As for those guys  playing for a better team? They would have to do better than what they do here or they wouldn't be playing. The Tigers are beyond patient with Tork, it's really making me wonder why? His draft status? He has/had potential but it's getting real old waiting for quality results. And McKinstry is just a glorified utility guy, good to have, when needed. Pressed into full time duty, his weaknesses are more exposed.

[Motor City Sonics]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't understand the obsession with home runs.  I think he is a game changer...but he can't do it by himself.  Trout never could either and he hits plenty of home runs.  

I think McGonigle will hit plenty of home runs -- later in his career.  For a lot of guys the power comes later.  Master hitting first, then add the power later. 

[monkeytargets39]

2 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I think McGonigle will hit plenty of home runs -- later in his career.  For a lot of guys the power comes later.  Master hitting first, then add the power later. 

He’s just missed a homerun by a couple feet like 4 or 5 times already this year.  He could really easily have 5 HRs this year already with some different wind or park dimensions.

[tiger2022]

And next year the Tigers won't have Skubal or Mize.  Say what you want about Mize, but he has been their 2nd best starter for the last few years.  

Valdez is going to age about as well as Cabrera did.  Jobe is coming back from a serious injury, Melton is hurt, Olson's career is over.  Flaherty will be back amd I'm sure Verlander will try to pitch another year if they will let him.  

I could see them fighting it out with the Royals for last place the next few years.  They had the two year run of making the wildcard and it might be back to rebuild time.

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't understand the obsession with home runs.  I think he is a game changer...but he can't do it by himself.  Trout never could either and he hits plenty of home runs.  

Earl Weaver calling you on line 2......

[tiger2022]

2 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

He’s just missed a homerun by a couple feet like 4 or 5 times already this year.  He could really easily have 5 HRs this year already with some different wind or park dimensions.

.287 avg, 5 almost home runs, 19 rbi.  That is what will flash on the screen next time he comes to bat.

Edited 10 minutes ago by tiger2022

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

So, they just should have assumed that there would be no pitching injuries?  Olson was not healthy at any point in the off-season and Melton was somewhat of an unknown.  You need at least 7 starters on your roster going into the season.  

So ignore the hitting problem because pitchers may get injured. Try to win low scoring games. In that case, we also had the problem with our defense.