05/27/2026 6:40p EDT Los Angeles Angels at Detroit Tigers

[gehringer_2]

28 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

  Keith is not Bonds or McGonigle.  He doesn't have a position, he's not fast, he has shown little power. 

Truly Keith has shown no aptitude for stealing bases, but TBF, he is otherwise fine on the bases and is positive runs as a base runner. The power thing is what I think has him in the dog house this season. I can imagine the change in stance probably either came from a private coaching shop or in some way without team input so he's probably getting no slack from the staff over his disappeared launch angle. For my money, if you have a guy that has shown the kind of contact skill Keith has flashed you work with him because everything else can follow if  the skill to get the bat on the ball is there. Riley is the cautionary tale here. He made an adjustment last season that had a lot of people ready to write him off, but he's been able to back of the extreme place where he was and he's being very productive so far this year. Like Riley, Keith has to come back some distance from the extreme of this short/flat approach but at this point it may not happen this season.

Edited yesterday at 02:21 AM by gehringer_2

[IdahoBert]

Mize and Jansen injured? Sheesh. 

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

Mize and Jansen injured? Sheesh. 

I would say they should have Anderson close, but they probably need him in the rotation now. 

[Tiger337]

25 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

and there is more to it. An MLB batter makes choices with their set up and approach that can change their susceptibility to the slider away (the big driver of platoon splits). Tell a LHH that LHP is off the table for him and he's going to maximize his approach to hit RHP, at that point he will be less prepared  against any LHP he has to face. That's the self-fulfilling part. Now it's possible  teams have decided that that by having their LLHs optimize to hit RHP combined with RH platoon players further combined with the 3 hitter rule for relievers, they just don't care about having everyday players; they are prepared to just keep switching all the time.  But then you get into a talent constrained situation like the Tigers are in and it's easy to believe that if he had a chance to work at it, a player like Keith would be better hitter against LHP than the pinch hitters the team actually has available to take the other half of his platoon ABs. That's where the potential loss is.

If he started batting against LHP, he might have to go through a whole different approach which might screw him up against RHP which is he already not hitting as well as he should.  I have no idea about that.  Just a theory.  

[monkeytargets39]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If he started batting against LHP, he might have to go through a whole different approach which might screw him up against RHP which is he already not hitting as well as he should.  I have no idea about that.  Just a theory.  

I mean, after tonight he’s hitting .300/.336/.371 vs RHPs this year.  I get that the power isn’t there, but let’s not act like he isn’t clearly the 4th best hitter on the team right now.  
 

The guys that we are pinch hitting him with are the ones not doing their jobs.  Jones is supposed to be a lefty killer and is doing .208/.288/.358 against the pitchers he supposed to be crushing.  Lee is slashing .191/.237/.361 vs Lefties.  Even Tork is .195/.365/.341 vs LHP.  Are all of their splits significantly better than what Keith could put up?
 

So Keith is at least hitting and getting on base at a decent clip in the matchups that are supposed to favor him—the other guys aren’t even taking advantage of their matchup advantage—so why take Keith out at all?  I get it if the platooning is paying off, but it’s not—so let the 24 year old play.

Edited yesterday at 02:44 AM by monkeytargets39

[gehringer_2]

34 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

If he started batting against LHP, he might have to go through a whole different approach which might screw him up against RHP which is he already not hitting as well as he should.  I have no idea about that.  Just a theory.  

yeah. anyway you look at it I feel bad for him, he took the initiative and did the work to try to get better and it's not working the way he had it scripted. He's not in a good place now and a manager under the kind of pressure to straighten out his team that Hinch has been under since last Sept would not be at the top of his list for team situations to be in having to work through his individual issues. I actually hope they send him back to Toledo to play one position every inning of everyday, then bring him back and park him there. But I see little likelihood they will.

Edited yesterday at 03:03 AM by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

So Keith is at least hitting and getting on base at a decent clip in the matchups that are supposed to favor him—the other guys aren’t even taking advantage of their matchup advantage—so why take Keith out at all?  I get it if the platooning is paying off, but it’s not—so let the 24 year old play.

this is exactly it. Every strategy is based on a set of premises. When the premises in your situation have failed, it doesn't matter what the global data set says is optimal strategy. And you still have the larger question of whether the Tigers  care if they produce a platoon player instead of an everyday one. There can be a divergence between what is in the player's best interests vs the team's. There is certainly a short team downside to letting a LHH  work through hitting against both sides.If for whatever reasons the team doesn't regard the long term payoff as significant, why should they do it?

Edited yesterday at 03:24 AM by gehringer_2

[lordstanley]

2 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

By the way.  Where is Daniela?  Did she get DFAd and dealt to the blue jays too?

 

 

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I mean, after tonight he’s hitting .300/.336/.371 vs RHPs this year.  I get that the power isn’t there, but let’s not act like he isn’t clearly the 4th best hitter on the team right now.  
 

The guys that we are pinch hitting him with are the ones not doing their jobs.  Jones is supposed to be a lefty killer and is doing .208/.288/.358 against the pitchers he supposed to be crushing.  Lee is slashing .191/.237/.361 vs Lefties.  Even Tork is .195/.365/.341 vs LHP.  Are all of their splits significantly better than what Keith could put up?
 

So Keith is at least hitting and getting on base at a decent clip in the matchups that are supposed to favor him—the other guys aren’t even taking advantage of their matchup advantage—so why take Keith out at all?  I get it if the platooning is paying off, but it’s not—so let the 24 year old play.

What I question is when they pinch hit for him so early in the game for an advantage that all but disappears in later at bats when Jones has to hit against a righty. Obviously Hinch feels that early at bat may change the game but often the latter at bat is just as important. 

[SoCalTiger]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

yeah. anyway you look at it I feel bad for him, he took the initiative and did the work to try to get better and it's not working the way he had it scripted. He's not in a good place now and a manager under the kind of pressure to straighten out his team that Hinch has been under since last Sept would not be at the top of his list for team situations to be in having to work through his individual issues. I actually hope they send him back to Toledo to play one position every inning of everyday, then bring him back and park him there. But I see little likelihood they will.

Hopefully the off season and spring training they can do just that. Maybe the outfield ? But Colt seems like he could be a much netter hitter and the Tigers need to find out a way to get him to relax. The dude seems wound too tight to me.

Extend Riley and move him to  first base - as you suggested - and move Keith to left field as an everyday player for 2027. And tell Hinch to let them play. Provided Keith can play the outfield. 

[Sports_Freak]

6 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

This Hinch platoons everyone argument is getting really ridiculous.  Sure, I'd like to see Keith get a shot at playing every day too, but apparently the Tigers have seen something that makes them think he shouldn't be facing LHP.  They have access to all kinds of technology that we don't have.  Maybe they are wrong in this case, but...the Bonds and McGonogle comparisons are stupid.  Those guys are/were complete players and they would be wanted in the line-up regardless of any platoon disadvantage.  Keith is not Bonds or McGonigle.  He doesn't have a position, he's not fast, he has shown little power.  He's got a 93 OPS+ against the RHP!  Maybe, he needs to learn how to hit RHP consistently before they put him in there vs LHP.

I think it's more about who they replace Keith with. Its not like they have a capable hitter replacing him, it's a hitter who is hitting ~ .160. Yeah, he hits LH pitchers better but, well, he sucks. 😆

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

This Hinch platoons everyone argument is getting really ridiculous.  Sure, I'd like to see Keith get a shot at playing every day too, but apparently the Tigers have seen something that makes them think he shouldn't be facing LHP.  They have access to all kinds of technology that we don't have.  Maybe they are wrong in this case, but...the Bonds and McGonogle comparisons are stupid.  Those guys are/were complete players and they would be wanted in the line-up regardless of any platoon disadvantage.  Keith is not Bonds or McGonigle.  He doesn't have a position, he's not fast, he has shown little power.  He's got a 93 OPS+ against the RHP!  Maybe, he needs to learn how to hit RHP consistently before they put him in there vs LHP.

The other thing that gets ridiculous are the implications, and flat out statements, that Hinch and Harris make decisions reflexively and without any forethought while simultaneously overthinking everything so they can show off and come off as the smartest people in the room. And that’s not the only contradictory line of complaint. Others include: Hinch is too into analytics, and also, he has no plan; Hinch is too cute with his moves, and also, he’s nothing but a pushbutton manager; Hinch doesn’t make the most of the players he has, and also, it’s so aggravating how he plays everyone in every position all the time because everyone is a utility player to him. Same with Harris, who should be making big trades, but then, do we really want him to be the one making the deals? Also, how could he waste our money on players he knew would not be productive instead of players he knew would be productive? And sometimes we damn both of them simultaneously for both ends of the same thing, my favorite being that Harris is a terrible GM because he puts poor players on the roster, and also, Hinch is an incompetent manager because he can’t figure out how to put a winning lineup on the field out of this roster. I guess it’s hard to avoid randomly lashing out when everything goes wrong on every front with our favorite team.

[monkeytargets39]

I’d have a lot less issues with Keith being a platoon bat if the RHH we replaced him with was a major league level player.  That’s all im saying.  With the injuries, terrible record and whatnot—now’s the time to let him play all game and in the field and see if he can handle it.  If we aren’t gonna do that—then trade him at the deadline because he’s borderline useless to us.

Edited yesterday at 12:55 PM by monkeytargets39

[Shelton]

35 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The other thing that gets ridiculous are the implications, and flat out statements, that Hinch and Harris make decisions reflexively and without any forethought while simultaneously overthinking everything so they can show off and come off as the smartest people in the room. And that’s not the only contradictory line of complaint. Others include: Hinch is too into analytics, and also, he has no plan; Hinch is too cute with his moves, and also, he’s nothing but a pushbutton manager; Hinch doesn’t make the most of the players he has, and also, it’s so aggravating how he plays everyone in every position all the time because everyone is a utility player to him. Same with Harris, who should be making big trades, but then, do we really want him to be the one making the deals? Also, how could he waste our money on players he knew would not be productive instead of players he knew would be productive? And sometimes we damn both of them simultaneously for both ends of the same thing, my favorite being that Harris is a terrible GM because he puts poor players on the roster, and also, Hinch is an incompetent manager because he can’t figure out how to put a winning lineup on the field out of this roster. I guess it’s hard to avoid randomly lashing out when everything goes wrong on every front with our favorite team.

I do think it’s hard to avoid complaining and lashing when everything is going wrong. But I’m with you in that I really don’t understand the volume of complaints against management. I guess it’s like the old saying about driving on the highway. Everyone driving slower than you is a weak idiot that needs to get out of the way and everyone driving faster than you is a madman that is going to get someone killed.
 

In my view, I’m happy to complain about why we have guys like Wenceel and short and Lee and workman on the roster when we appear to have higher ceiling replacements available in AAA. But I’m also willing to grant that there may be valid roster considerations in play, especially as such moves would require 40-man changes and the current state is still somewhat of a short term problem with a near term solution of guys like Torres and Kerry being back soon. 
 

I think it’s pretty hard for people to give up on their position, and it’s natural to double down. I think most people do it, myself included. 
 

The important thing to remember is that my view is objectively correct and everyone else is wrong. It’s just a matter of how much they are wrong relative to my objectively correct position.

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I do think it’s hard to avoid complaining and lashing when everything is going wrong. But I’m with you in that I really don’t understand the volume of complaints against management. I guess it’s like the old saying about driving on the highway. Everyone driving slower than you is a weak idiot that needs to get out of the way and everyone driving faster than you is a madman that is going to get someone killed.

I think it's due mainly to 20-20 hindsight. After all, we can clearly see which players have been non-productive and Harris should never have signed them, and which players are productive and why didn't Harris sign them? And we can see now that we have a record-threatening number on players on the big league IL and how could Harris not have created the roster depth made up of big league starters to cover it? And we can all see how Kenley blew the game on Sunday after six nearly perfect appearances preceding it, and how could Hinch have been so stupid as to put him in the game in the first place? We can all see what our record is now, and we all have opinions on what should have been done over the winter to forestall that, and now we think management is stupid for not having done whatever our idea of the moment that was posted is. It's a tale as old as organized professional sports.

Maybe OOTP has something to do with it. A certain subset of fans think it's super easy to make trades and signings IRL because it's so easy to do in OOTP (especially once you jiggle the settings handle). Maybe those fans' frame of reference has been altered. Who knows.

[NorthWoods]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

The other thing that gets ridiculous are the implications, and flat out statements, that Hinch and Harris make decisions reflexively and without any forethought while simultaneously overthinking everything so they can show off and come off as the smartest people in the room. And that’s not the only contradictory line of complaint. Others include: Hinch is too into analytics, and also, he has no plan; Hinch is too cute with his moves, and also, he’s nothing but a pushbutton manager; Hinch doesn’t make the most of the players he has, and also, it’s so aggravating how he plays everyone in every position all the time because everyone is a utility player to him. Same with Harris, who should be making big trades, but then, do we really want him to be the one making the deals? Also, how could he waste our money on players he knew would not be productive instead of players he knew would be productive? And sometimes we damn both of them simultaneously for both ends of the same thing, my favorite being that Harris is a terrible GM because he puts poor players on the roster, and also, Hinch is an incompetent manager because he can’t figure out how to put a winning lineup on the field out of this roster. I guess it’s hard to avoid randomly lashing out when everything goes wrong on every front with our favorite team.

So Hinch is a Harris lackey?

[Shelton]

I think the Framber signing and Drew Anderson signing are looking good so far. I’m not upset about the JV thing quite yet, but he does need to actually return from the IL and perform like a decent fifth starter. 
 

Probably down on the Kenley thing, but I think when they made that move my feeling that he would be jsut one part of a three-man closing crew, but finnegan has also not been as good as hoped and vest got hurt. These are moves that you can definitely quibble with because there are always different relievers so they feel the most fungible. 

[DTroppens]

Nice being able to enjoy a win, but maybe two more down. The craziness will never end. 

[DTroppens]

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

I think the Framber signing and Drew Anderson signing are looking good so far. I’m not upset about the JV thing quite yet, but he does need to actually return from the IL and perform like a decent fifth starter. 

The JV thing was never a huge thing to me. I figured why not try. If it hits, that's great. If what is happening now, happens, that's okay as well. It was a pot luck thing that was only for the season. Really, it was worth the shot to see if it worked. Right now, it hasn't. Maybe in August he ends up a pretty solid arm in the rotation. But even if not, giving it a whirl was never a horrible option in my book.

[Tiger337]

10 hours ago, DTroppens said:

The JV thing was never a huge thing to me. I figured why not try. If it hits, that's great. If what is happening now, happens, that's okay as well. It was a pot luck thing that was only for the season. Really, it was worth the shot to see if it worked. Right now, it hasn't. Maybe in August he ends up a pretty solid arm in the rotation. But even if not, giving it a whirl was never a horrible option in my book.

If they had signed Verlander before they signed Valdez, I would have called it a lazy move.  Since he was signed right after Valdez, I was OK with it.