4hzglory Posted August 5 Posted August 5 9 hours ago, Tenacious D said: I think you’re a bit wrong about Finnegan—he was very good when he first arrived—it seemed like the Tigers were unable to unlock something and he was able to K guys. He got hurt and was out for a bit and was not the same pitcher when he came back. I was very good with the Finnegan resigning. I was pleased with what I saw last year and thought he'd at least be a relatively dependable piece in the pen. For the early part of the year, he was doing well (except for closing), but lately he has been a mess. Overall, as Chas' numbers point out, the biggest issue with the pen has been leverage situations and Vest getting injured. In May, it seemed like whoever was put in to close would give up a walk-off homer, even if they were doing great in the weeks prior. Could that have been predicted? Maybe with Anderson since he hadn't pitched in leverage much, but Finnegan was doing great for a stretch, closes a game, and gives up a walk-off - he had many years of closing experience, so I can't fault Hinch for using him then. Bullpens are tough. Quote
chasfh Posted August 5 Posted August 5 15 hours ago, TigerNation said: Its pretty standard for top prospects to sign big league extensions these days, I doubt Clarks camp would not engage in those talks. His extension would be less than McGonigles, assuming the same number of years, and that wouldn't be an issue. Clark is well aware that McGonigle is a better player than him. A contract less than McGonigle, but more than Weatherholts would not be an issue. I would bet you money that Max Clark does not accept at face value that Kevin McGonigle is a better player than he. That starts with player ego, and extends with Max being a #3 overall pick with a $7.7 million signing bonus versus McGonigle being a comp pick with a $2.85 million. Why give Max so much more money if Kevin's so much a better player? See what I'm saying? I'm not saying at all that I know for a fact there would be tension between them. I'm just saying I wonder whether it would be a tricky thing to determine how to pay Max on an extension in relation to Kevin's extension money, which I think is an open question and not subject to our conclusions based on what we would like to believe they themselves believe or know, or what their relationship is like. Quote
chasfh Posted August 5 Posted August 5 17 minutes ago, 4hzglory said: Overall, as Chas' numbers point out, the biggest issue with the pen has been leverage situations and Vest getting injured. In May, it seemed like whoever was put in to close would give up a walk-off homer, even if they were doing great in the weeks prior. Could that have been predicted? Maybe with Anderson since he hadn't pitched in leverage much, but Finnegan was doing great for a stretch, closes a game, and gives up a walk-off - he had many years of closing experience, so I can't fault Hinch for using him then. Bullpens are tough. Yes, and more to the point, is this something that can be planned and controlled for? Is it Harris's fault that he signed relievers who have faltered in specific situations because he should have known they would do so, despite their being quite good outside those situations? Is it a reasonable expectation that front offices should know upfront who's going to deliver in the clutch and who isn't, at least for the coming season? What should he have done differently, outside a facile retort that he should have just signed good relievers instead of bad? Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 5 Posted August 5 9 minutes ago, chasfh said: I would bet you money that Max Clark does not accept at face value that Kevin McGonigle is a better player than he. That starts with player ego, and extends with Max being a #3 overall pick with a $7.7 million signing bonus versus McGonigle being a comp pick with a $2.85 million. Why give Max so much more money if Kevin's so much a better player? See what I'm saying? I'm not saying at all that I know for a fact there would be tension between them. I'm just saying I wonder whether it would be a tricky thing to determine how to pay Max on an extension in relation to Kevin's extension money, which I think is an open question and not subject to our conclusions based on what we would like to believe they themselves believe or know, or what their relationship is like. Let's see a bit more, then offer him the same deal. They're supposedly buddies that want to play together so making the same money removes that as a source of friction for either. Quote
chasfh Posted August 5 Posted August 5 On 8/3/2026 at 7:31 PM, casimir said: So hang on to win one of those losses vs Kansas City and then figure out a way to hold a 7 run lead vs Baltimore and the trade deadline might be different? Thinking about this a little more, I don't believe had we won the KC series and beat Baltimore in that one game he would have kept Skubal after all. I still think he would have sold, it just would have been more difficult to justify. I do believe splitting that Royals series and blowing that lead did give him the handy excuse he could use so the question could be asked and answered and we could all just move on. Quote
Dan Gilmore Posted August 5 Posted August 5 I think a Skubal trade was likely, Mize being added was a product of missed wins just before the deadline. It’s all been a fine line to walk. So many counterpoints to consider from the go for it/sell everything perspectives. I was resigned to them trading Skubal, he would bring the most in return. I was hoping to keep Mize, so we’d have a strong rotation for a stretch run, and maybe keep him a Tiger longer. I guess they will just have to win without either of them. Might as well. Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 5 Posted August 5 Worth linking an archived article. This sounds like we got a great kid in addition to a stand out ballplayer. https://archive.ph/EwkpU 1 3 Quote
gehringer_2 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said: I think a Skubal trade was likely, Mize being added was a product of missed wins just before the deadline. It’s all been a fine line to walk. So many counterpoints to consider from the go for it/sell everything perspectives. I was resigned to them trading Skubal, he would bring the most in return. I was hoping to keep Mize, so we’d have a strong rotation for a stretch run, and maybe keep him a Tiger longer. I guess they will just have to win without either of them. Might as well. I would guess the Tigers had made some kind of offer to Mize and been turned down cold there as well. I don't fault Harris for moving guys who want the team to bid against itself when they plan to move on anyway. The players and their agents are not romantics when it comes to getting paid, GMs can't afford to be about keeping fantasy teams together either. Edited August 5 by gehringer_2 Quote
Nate7474 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 30 minutes ago, NorthWoods said: Let's see a bit more, then offer him the same deal. They're supposedly buddies that want to play together so making the same money removes that as a source of friction for either. My guess is he will sign a very similar extension but slightly more. Why? Because we live in a different world than yesterday and contracts always go slightly up. The Tigers would do well to get it done as soon as possible because that price goes up if he is successful the rest of this season like he is looking to be so far. Quote
CMRivdogs Posted August 5 Posted August 5 5 minutes ago, NorthWoods said: Worth linking an archived article. This sounds like we got a great kid in addition to a stand out ballplayer. https://archive.ph/EwkpU Gotta love it. A Navy brat (I say that with respect) . I found this article from a few years ago whike he was still in high school. Not much to dislike, personality wise... https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/colonial-forge-baseball-star-and-mlb-draft-prospect-loves-to-lift-people-s-spirits/article_49fc320a-b2bd-11ed-9f10-6b4afba5ebc8.html 1 Quote
oblong Posted August 5 Posted August 5 34 minutes ago, chasfh said: Thinking about this a little more, I don't believe had we won the KC series and beat Baltimore in that one game he would have kept Skubal after all. I still think he would have sold, it just would have been more difficult to justify. I do believe splitting that Royals series and blowing that lead did give him the handy excuse he could use so the question could be asked and answered and we could all just move on. I also tend to believe that the Skubal situation existed outside of the team's record as it's own thing. It's a unique opportunity. The only exception would be if the team was in 1st place and legit WS contenders. That is something you run with and if you make that deal and don't win the WS it defines your legacy. 2 1 Quote
TigerNation Posted August 5 Posted August 5 45 minutes ago, chasfh said: I would bet you money that Max Clark does not accept at face value that Kevin McGonigle is a better player than he. That starts with player ego, and extends with Max being a #3 overall pick with a $7.7 million signing bonus versus McGonigle being a comp pick with a $2.85 million. Why give Max so much more money if Kevin's so much a better player? See what I'm saying? I'm not saying at all that I know for a fact there would be tension between them. I'm just saying I wonder whether it would be a tricky thing to determine how to pay Max on an extension in relation to Kevin's extension money, which I think is an open question and not subject to our conclusions based on what we would like to believe they themselves believe or know, or what their relationship is like. Its legitimately insulting to his intelligence to suggest Max would use their draft pick status and not the 2.5+ professional seasons they've both played since then to argue he's better. Quote
AlaskanTigersFan Posted August 5 Posted August 5 19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I would guess the Tigers had made some kind of offer to Mize and been turned down cold there as well. I don't fault Harris for moving guys who want the team to bid against itself when they plan to move on anyway. The players and their agents are not romantics when it comes to getting paid, GMs can't afford to be about keeping fantasy teams together either. I could see Harris targeting Mize in the offseason and bringing him back. He might come back on a 3-5 year deal. It wouldn't be too outrageous and the way he's pitching, he'll slot in at the top of the rotation if he can keep it up. I can totally see that. Quote
Tiger337 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 17 hours ago, chasfh said: I agree with your thinking, although I would love to see the Tigers turn this statement upside down by selling off Skubal and Mize, then still going to the playoffs, then to the World Series, and winning a ring. This is still a possibility, and it's not merely non-zero. Yes, it is still a possibility - not because they are a better team when the odds are against them - but because they are close to a playoff spot, the teams they have to beat to make the playoffs are not strong, and they still have a good deal of talent. And I will always maintain that any team that makes the playoffs has some chance to win it all. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 14 minutes ago, AlaskanTigersFan said: I could see Harris targeting Mize in the offseason and bringing him back. He might come back on a 3-5 year deal. It wouldn't be too outrageous and the way he's pitching, he'll slot in at the top of the rotation if he can keep it up. I can totally see that. He’s not coming back. We didn’t even attempt to extend him Quote
Nate7474 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 6 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: He’s not coming back. We didn’t even attempt to extend him I do worry that Harris’s strategy is going to be extend early in their careers to buy out years or let them walk/trade them when their first contract runs out. Use Free agency to fill gaps on 1-2 year type contracts. If this is accurate then we may be looking to replace players like Greene in a couple years. Quote
mtutiger Posted August 5 Posted August 5 8 minutes ago, Nate7474 said: I do worry that Harris’s strategy is going to be extend early in their careers to buy out years or let them walk/trade them when their first contract runs out. Use Free agency to fill gaps on 1-2 year type contracts. If this is accurate then we may be looking to replace players like Greene in a couple years. The caveat to all of this is that Mize is a player inherited from the previous regime and may not, at this point, be a talent that he wishes to keep around much longer. I'd like to see them try to extend players (Riley Greene being the one that comes to mind at the moment), but it's hard to tell if it's an organization philosophy or just how they view the individual player Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 5 Posted August 5 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Yes, it is still a possibility - not because they are a better team when the odds are against them - but because they are close to a playoff spot, the teams they have to beat to make the playoffs are not strong, and they still have a good deal of talent. And I will always maintain that any team that makes the playoffs has some chance to win it all. And honestly Melton/Valdez/Montero/Jobe/Flaherty have enough potential to be in the top tier of playoff rotations. My guess is that they would start Melton/Valdez/Jobe and try to use Montero in the BP. Flaherty might find himself in a lonesome room again. Edited August 5 by NorthWoods Quote
4hzglory Posted August 5 Posted August 5 28 minutes ago, NorthWoods said: And honestly Melton/Valdez/Montero/Jobe/Flaherty have enough potential to be in the top tier of playoff rotations. My guess is that they would start Melton/Valdez/Jobe and try to use Montero in the BP. Flaherty might find himself in a lonesome room again. Other than the wildcard series, they would likely need 4 starters for the playoffs. Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 5 Posted August 5 1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said: Gotta love it. A Navy brat (I say that with respect) . I found this article from a few years ago whike he was still in high school. Not much to dislike, personality wise... https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/colonial-forge-baseball-star-and-mlb-draft-prospect-loves-to-lift-people-s-spirits/article_49fc320a-b2bd-11ed-9f10-6b4afba5ebc8.html His step-dad sounds like a pretty impressive guy too. Adding him to the core we have now would be great! They all sound like a mix of good players/kids that know how to work. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 56 minutes ago, Nate7474 said: I do worry that Harris’s strategy is going to be extend early in their careers to buy out years or let them walk/trade them when their first contract runs out. Use Free agency to fill gaps on 1-2 year type contracts. If this is accurate then we may be looking to replace players like Greene in a couple years. Riley may not be worth re-signing. There’s no way he ages well. He will be a DH type by his 30s Quote
theroundsquare Posted August 5 Posted August 5 12 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: Riley may not be worth re-signing. There’s no way he ages well. He will be a DH type by his 30s 100. a lazy question: are riley and tork on the same timeline to free agency? i continue to think riley's future is at 1b. i wonder if they'd hang on to riley to play 1b after tork moves on Quote
NorthWoods Posted August 5 Posted August 5 27 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: Riley may not be worth re-signing. There’s no way he ages well. He will be a DH type by his 30s Riley might be a good "baseball trade" candidate - IF we can build enough OF depth to afford moving him. He has seemed to hold up better after a rough start injury wise. I've seen that from other players, hurt young then learned to keep themselves healthy. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted August 5 Posted August 5 23 minutes ago, theroundsquare said: 100. a lazy question: are riley and tork on the same timeline to free agency? i continue to think riley's future is at 1b. i wonder if they'd hang on to riley to play 1b after tork moves on I believe both are free agent eligible after 2028 Quote
RatkoVarda Posted August 5 Posted August 5 moving on from Tork will be easy - 4 guys in line to produce the same (or more) for less money as earlier as mid-2027. adding Greene to crowded 1b mix probably does not help. But I also do not think Riley will age well. Quote
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