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4/20 @ 6:40 Yankees @ Tigers


Tigeraholic1
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I don't get why people have issue with what Morris said.  He didn't say anything bad or lie.  Pitchers of his day and before pitched a lot more and for more inning.  Some guys pitched 15 to 18 inning games. I'm sure their shoulders were sore and continued to be after their playing days.  Pitchers are treated very soft these days. 

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20 minutes ago, Archie said:

I don't get why people have issue with what Morris said.  He didn't say anything bad or lie.  Pitchers of his day and before pitched a lot more and for more inning.  Some guys pitched 15 to 18 inning games. I'm sure their shoulders were sore and continued to be after their playing days.  Pitchers are treated very soft these days. 

I think the reason it appeared in poor taste was that he appeared to be blaming Manning, and all Manning did was not lie to his manager and trainer - which would be a stupid policy for any young player. If Jack is just bemoaning the general state of the game, fine, but he didn't make that explicit.

To me the weird thing is that despite athletes in the modern era getting faster, stronger, better in almost every way, we still have this weird idea that somehow off all the athletes in the world, baseball pitchers have made the choice to go soft. I think that is not a very credible view. I'm sure pitchers today train more and harder than their average predecessors ever did. It apparently doesn't help given what is being demanded of them. In fact maybe over training is the problem. If the dominant injury is UCL *wearout* maybe guys need to be throwing far less and saving it for games only - though I think that had been tried as well without it making any difference. Whatever - it's clear the people in the sport do not understand the source of the problem, or just won't or can't do anything about it (too many breaking balls being thrown?). The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that it's not because today's pitchers are 'soft' as athletes.

Edited by gehringer_2
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20 minutes ago, Archie said:

I don't get why people have issue with what Morris said.  He didn't say anything bad or lie.  Pitchers of his day and before pitched a lot more and for more inning.  Some guys pitched 15 to 18 inning games. I'm sure their shoulders were sore and continued to be after their playing days.  Pitchers are treated very soft these days. 

It's not about being "soft".  When Morris was pitching, every batter wasn't a home run threat.  Pitchers could pace themselves and were able to throw more pitches.  Today, pitchers have to bear down on every batter.  

They also didn't know much about pitching injuries back then.  They now try to manager pitching staffs in order to minimize injuries.  I am not sure how well it works, but it's not done because pitchers are "soft".

Morris should make an attempt to keep up with the modern game.  It would make him a better broadcaster.  

 

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52 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's not about being "soft".  When Morris was pitching, every batter wasn't a home run threat.  Pitchers could pace themselves and were able to throw more pitches.  Today, pitchers have to bear down on every batter.  

They also didn't know much about pitching injuries back then.  They now try to manager pitching staffs in order to minimize injuries.  I am not sure how well it works, but it's not done because pitchers are "soft".

Morris should make an attempt to keep up with the modern game.  It would make him a better broadcaster.  

 

I mostly agree but are all the injuries to pitchers caused by limiting them early in their careers? The Tigers were careful with Mize and Manning last season and they're still injured. How did that work out for them? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

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9 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I mostly agree but are all the injuries to pitchers caused by limiting them early in their careers? The Tigers were careful with Mize and Manning last season and they're still injured. How did that work out for them? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

yeah, They are better at fixing injuries now but it's not clear to me how much they have learned about preventing them.

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33 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I mostly agree but are all the injuries to pitchers caused by limiting them early in their careers? The Tigers were careful with Mize and Manning last season and they're still injured. How did that work out for them? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

OTOH, didn't Mize throw a  lot of innings in college, and a lot of splits, which is supposedly a tough pitch on the arm? Then again, at one time the big deal was controlling how much kids threw before they were 18 and how many breaking balls. I don't know if that is still a thing or not.

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1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

OTOH, didn't Mize throw a  lot of innings in college, and a lot of splits, which is supposedly a tough pitch on the arm? Then again, at one time the big deal was controlling how much kids threw before they were 18 and how many breaking balls. I don't know if that is still a thing or not.

Turnbull, Boyd, Mize and Manning. I'm starting to see a trend. Go ahead, call up some more young starting pitchers, I double dare you.

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28 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I mostly agree but are all the injuries to pitchers caused by limiting them early in their careers? The Tigers were careful with Mize and Manning last season and they're still injured. How did that work out for them? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. 

I think it's very much a individual thing.  Take Max Scherzer.  When he first came up, everyone was predicting a major injury from him because of his delivery and he's been relatively healthy his whole career.  Now take Justin Verlander, who most people would consider has the perfect delivery, missed time in 2015 due to injury and later had TJ surgery.  

Scherzer, while being a regular starting pitcher for the prior 4 years, didn't hit 200 innings until his age 28 season.  Verlander, on the other hand, had 5 years of 200+ innings through his age 28 season (including 2 years at 240+).  Maybe Verlander was overworked early in his career and that was the cause of TJ surgery?   

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Just now, bobrob2004 said:

Shhh...don't criticize Hinch.  

Lol, I actually love Hinch and think he's one of the best managers in mlb, but some of his lineups could be better this year (I know, 10 games in, and no Baez), but Candy really needs to be in a 6-9 spot at this point imo...but I'm just a slub on my couch.

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4 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I think it's very much a individual thing.  Take Max Scherzer.  When he first came up, everyone was predicting a major injury from him because of his delivery and he's been relatively healthy his whole career.  Now take Justin Verlander, who most people would consider has the perfect delivery, missed time in 2015 due to injury and later had TJ surgery.  

Scherzer, while being a regular starting pitcher for the prior 4 years, didn't hit 200 innings until his age 28 season.  Verlander, on the other hand, had 5 years of 200+ innings through his age 28 season (including 2 years at 240+).  Maybe Verlander was overworked early in his career and that was the cause of TJ surgery?   

Yeah, I guess I'm not blaming Hinch or the Tiger organization. Just bad luck? Those 4 pitchers make up an entire pitching staff. If Mize and Manning need TJ surgery (I'm NOT saying they will) they'll be out until 2024. Just a horrible possibility.

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