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Stop Playing Guys Out-of-Position


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Last night our "brilliant" manager played Willi Castro in CF and he made one of the most terrible plays I've ever seen a "centerfielder" make.  The Tigers lost 13-0, so the decision will likely get buried and everyone will forget how bad of a job Hinch managed that game.  It's just one game, just 1 loss in the column, go get 'em tomorrow.  I mean, we desperately needed Castro's .665 OPS in the lineup (.689 over his last 8 games!).  And with all the injuries, who the hell was supposed to play centerfield anyway?  I'll just plug the guy with the worst UZR/150 in there.  -31.4 isn't that bad, right?  And now they want to see if Clemens can play multiple positions.  I mean, he will play multiple positions, and by that, he'll stand in the vicinity of the position regardless of whether or not he's any good.  Flexibility, baby!  

Remember last year when Schoop pretended to be a first baseman?  That was fun.  Our even more incompetent General Manager forgot to get a first basemen during the off-season.  Or maybe it was Hinch's idea (supposedly he has a say on the guys we get).  We don't need a first baseman, Tork will be ready next year.  That's the year we really want to compete.  I'll just keep asking guys who wants to move to 1B and the first guy who says, "yes," will get it.  Congratulations, Schoop!  Your -2.3 UZR/150 wasn't the worst in the league.  I mean, it's bad, but probably wasn't the difference between the Tigers playing 8 games below .500 and finishing at .500.

Remember how awful Goodrum was at playing SS?  Another case of having to have the "hot" bat in the lineup.  Candelario at 1B?  Oh wait...that was Gardenhire doing that, not Hinch.  Gardenhire was also pretty good.  I mean for the Twins.  For the Tigers, he had a .354 winning% (that's equivalent to a 57-105 record season).  I'm glad they upgraded to Hinch, who actually won a World Series (cheating aside).  Still waiting for that winning mentality in Detroit (probably not enough trash cans).  

Can we just stop playing guys out of position?  It doesn't make them "flexible.  It doesn't make then good teammates because they are, "taking one for the team."  It just makes everyone look incompetent.  

*That being said, there are guys out there that are legitimate utility players, who are capable of playing multiple positions.  Just not everyone can be Don Kelly.  

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55 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

That being said, there are guys out there that are legitimate utility players, who are capable of playing multiple positions.  Just not everyone can be Don Kelly.  

this is the TL;DR.

If you want real utility players, draft or develop them. If you push a kid who has played SS all his life into the OF, find out if he can do more than catch a routine pop-up before you play him there in ML games. 

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2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

They actually have quite a bit of depth in the outfield this year, but their five top outfielders are injured.  

Minors are a bit barren—Campos, lil’ Meadows, Cabrera and Packard all are big question marks.  Maybe we can get a Brennan Boesch-like half season out of Kerry Carpenter at some point.

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36 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Minors are a bit barren—Campos, lil’ Meadows, Cabrera and Packard all are big question marks.  Maybe we can get a Brennan Boesch-like half season out of Kerry Carpenter at some point.

Baddoo!  He played in the majors last year and surprised everyone of course, but he would have been in the minors all along if were not a rule 5 guy.  

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15 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I’ll put Baddoo in the Boesch/Chris Shelton camp, until he proves otherwise.  

yeah, he's a prospect.  They all have to prove themselves, but I'd rank him ahead of the other guys you mentioned.  

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The roster mostly stinks and a lot of the players who don't stink are injured. I would rather blame the owner/management that foolishly decided this was a win now year (but didn't invest the money to actually win) than the manager stuck with the abomination they've inflicted upon him.

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2 hours ago, pyrotigers said:

The roster mostly stinks and a lot of the players who don't stink are injured. I would rather blame the owner/management that foolishly decided this was a win now year (but didn't invest the money to actually win) than the manager stuck with the abomination they've inflicted upon him.

A lot of the players who are injured stink, too, but that's just another onion layer to cry over.

The whole "win now" thing wasn't going to work unless everyone hit on all cylinders and nothing went wrong, which is no way to plan for a win now team in any event.

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This is on Al.   7 years of running this team (and 12 years as part of the front office before that) and the 2 major-league OF he has produced are Riley Greene (has proven nothing yet) and Derek Hill (his potential is basically Quintin Berry).   That's a lot of drafts to produce nothing.     I admire Willi for playing his ass off and saying "yes" to whatever they need.  Guy's got some grit.  I know he has no room to refuse, but he's doing the best he can.    Yep, freakish year with injuries.  It does feel like they are cursed, but no depth from our own system.  It's so frustrating.   

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

This is on Al.   7 years of running this team (and 12 years as part of the front office before that) and the 2 major-league OF he has produced are Riley Greene (has proven nothing yet) and Derek Hill (his potential is basically Quintin Berry).   That's a lot of drafts to produce nothing.     I admire Willi for playing his ass off and saying "yes" to whatever they need.  Guy's got some grit.  I know he has no room to refuse, but he's doing the best he can.    Yep, freakish year with injuries.  It does feel like they are cursed, but no depth from our own system.  It's so frustrating.   

Come on, really?

Sure I'm glad that Willi is happy to play wherever, that doesn't mean that the Tigers should just play him wherever, nor does it absolve Al or AJ or whoever from criticism when the decision doesn't work out.

Even with as bad as the offense has been, you can't just put a guy with a .640 OPS in a position he doesn't know how to field. I can't see how to countenance it

Edited by mtutiger
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10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

They actually have quite a bit of depth in the outfield this year, but their five top outfielders are injured.  

This is the answer. Close the thread.

We are two weeks away from Grossman, Meadows, and Greene holding down the fort with Hill as 4th OF.

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12 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Come on, really?

Sure I'm glad that Willi is happy to play wherever, that doesn't mean that the Tigers should just play him wherever, nor does it absolve Al or AJ or whoever from criticism when the decision doesn't work out.

Even with as bad as the offense has been, you can't just put a guy with a .640 OPS in a position he doesn't know how to field. I can't see how to countenance it

I am absolutely not absolving Al.   Who else is going to play there?    They have Hill, Cameron and the Castros.  That's it until Meadows, Robbie, Reyes, or Greene come up.    It's a poorly constructed OF.   I'm not even giving AJ a hard time.  What else is he supposed to do? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I am absolutely not absolving Al.   Who else is going to play there?    They have Hill, Cameron and the Castros.  That's it until Meadows, Robbie, Reyes, or Greene come up.    It's a poorly constructed OF.   I'm not even giving AJ a hard time.  What else is he supposed to do? 

Play Cameron and Hill in the outfield every single game. Since they are so shorthanded, platoon Clemens and W.Castro. 

It's not that hard, but Willi's BABIPfest that ended 2+ weeks ago seems to have folks convinced that his bat is useful enough to ignore his inability to play the outfield. I just don't agree.... and looking between the lines, it's pretty clear that it's not happening game after game purely out of desperation. 

Ill gladly eat crow when Meadows and Greene end up elevated and W.Castro is demoted or not playing outfield. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Edited by mtutiger
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Posted (edited)

Build an actual roster with good mlb players. And you can carry Cameron and Hill in the outfield if your entire infield didn't have worst in the offense numbers. Every single position. Castro is a better hitter than both of those guys so he gives you something even if he can't play defense.

You are focusing on Cameron and Hill's defense when this is one of the worst offenses in mlb within the past 10 years.

Edited by kdog
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Posted (edited)

Willi Castro wouldn't be playing if their entire infield all had OPS below .600 aside from Tork. They only reason he's playing is that when he occasionally makes contact, sometimes it's a basehit. That's how bad this has been.

And Meadows and Grossman have 0 combined homers on June 5th!!!! this is insanity even given their injuries. Hinch hasn't done a good job but this is a systemic failure.

Edited by kdog
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14 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Play Cameron and Hill in the outfield every single game. Since they are so shorthanded, platoon Clemens and W.Castro. 

It's not that hard, but Willi's BABIPfest that ended 2+ weeks ago seems to have folks convinced that his bat is useful enough to ignore his inability to play the outfield. I just don't agree.... and looking between the lines, it's pretty clear that it's not happening game after game purely out of desperation. 

Ill gladly eat crow when Meadows and Greene end up elevated and W.Castro is demoted or not playing outfield. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Willi is going to play in the outfield until the rest of the lineup makes him unnecessary. I don't blame him or Hinch. It's the other guys who are paid well and doing nothing.

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19 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Pyro makes an appearance!  Welcome back.  

I didn't want to come back with an overly negative post last year about how their were probably a lot of fluke performances, so instead, I waited to come back with an overly negative post damning the entire organization this year.

That's called "self-improvement".

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The Willi Castro thing is a micro issue that stems from gigantic macro problems within the organization. Trust me, they wouldn't play him this much or out of position if they didn't have to.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, kdog said:

Willi Castro wouldn't be playing if their entire infield all had OPS below .600

actually in a sense my bigger complaint about them playing Willi is the argument that he's playing because he can hit better than the alternative. I just don't believe he is even the better hitter.

Edited by gehringer_2
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Just now, gehringer_2 said:

actually in a sense my bigger complaint about them playing Willi is the argument that he's playing because he can hit better than the alternative. I just don't think he can.

Hinch is trying to get through 3 days at a time with the injuries and lack of performance. They can't possibly think that Willi will hit over the season. They're just trying to find a few weeks of decent contact. This is survival instinct.

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