sabretooth Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 And no doubt in my mind that Ivey is a more effective point guard option.....more effectively quick, more aggressive, better decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hart Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 I do think there is a lot to be said for Ivey being more the point guard. While I do agree Cade is overly passive, it's not going to help this team for him to be more aggressive unless he actually becomes a high percentage scorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Daaaaaaamn....Ivey again with the crazy scoop and score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabretooth Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hart said: I do think there is a lot to be said for Ivey being more the point guard. While I do agree Cade is overly passive, it's not going to help this team for him to be more aggressive unless he actually becomes a high percentage scorer. I think we have a chicken-and-egg problem with Cade. He has a problem with inefficient behaviors and also with being passive....AND his skill set simply is not strong enough for him to be an efficient player. I think the only realistic path to improving his game is to have him be more aggressive, score more, and *then* see if he can work out the kinks. I would prefer to have Ivey handle the ball and to see Cade move off-ball more, but I'm afraid that he will disappear offensively if they do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 ivey is not a point guard. cade is a point forward. one bad game doesnt change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, buddha said: ivey is not a point guard. cade is a point forward. one bad game doesnt change that. 6.8 assists per 36 min in his 1st three games is actually better than Cade's career average to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 (edited) This is not only a bad team right now, they aren't even fun to watch. Also, Cade can show up to the season anytime now. His numbers aren't THAT bad but the eye test paints a very different picture. He seems completely uninterested as if something personal is going in with him. No reason to panic but this is about as ugly a start to the season as can be. The only bright spots are a 33 year old who is likely gone at the deadline, Duren and Ivey in moments. Everything else is shit right now. Oh and I know the design this season is to tank for another high draft pick and Casey is the perfect coach for a tank team but at some point, developing THIS group of players has to be a priority (and not the next new shiny toy) and Casey is running this thing right into the ground with his idiotic rotations and garbage ISO, no ball movement, offense. Don't get me started on the switching defense that clearly doesn't work. I guess there's no point in firing him now because, tank, but they're going to need a coach that can get the most out of these players at some point or we're going to see young player stagnation to the point of no return. Edited October 26, 2022 by NYLion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 the problem i see with cade being the main ball handler is that he seems to think that means he should pass and defer. get everyone involved early in theory, that's what a point guard should do, but in the modern nba and on THIS team? i want to see cade be more selfish and look for his own shot more. also....making that shot more would be helpful too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 I'm starting to question the whole "Casey is a great developmental coach" line as well. How has Killian done? Has Cade looked better so far this year? What about Bey whose shot and efficiency have regressed? Maybe you can point to Stew taking threes now, but overall I think there's evidence on both sides of this argument and I'm not sure the real answer isn't simply, 'that's who these players would have been one way or the other.' What I DO know is that Casey is not a good coach from everything I see on the court. Bad lineup rotations, bad defensive scheme, bad offensive scheme, players that have regressed, a team that looks uninterested other than the rookies and a 33 years old who just joined up. Look, everyone expected this team to be bad, but it's not about the wins and losses, it's about the blowouts, lack of progress, and how incompetent and out of place this team looks amongst their NBA peers. What I see is a young team and a coach that's putting them in a really bad position night after night making things worse and impacting their development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hart Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 8 hours ago, NYLion said: This is not only a bad team right now, they aren't even fun to watch. Also, Cade can show up to the season anytime now. His numbers aren't THAT bad but the eye test paints a very different picture. He seems completely uninterested as if something personal is going in with him. No reason to panic but this is about as ugly a start to the season as can be. The only bright spots are a 33 year old who is likely gone at the deadline, Duren and Ivey in moments. Everything else is shit right now. Oh and I know the design this season is to tank for another high draft pick and Casey is the perfect coach for a tank team but at some point, developing THIS group of players has to be a priority (and not the next new shiny toy) and Casey is running this thing right into the ground with his idiotic rotations and garbage ISO, no ball movement, offense. Don't get me started on the switching defense that clearly doesn't work. I guess there's no point in firing him now because, tank, but they're going to need a coach that can get the most out of these players at some point or we're going to see young player stagnation to the point of no return. I don't think Cade is uninterested. I just don't think he knows how or is good enough to lift a poorly constructed team with a bad coach. His instinct his entire basketball life is to make other players around him better. But when we you have a coach who doesn't know how to build an offense and a center who can't finish in traffic, you are handicapping him. Add to that the fact he is not a very good shooter at this point and an average athlete and you have a confluence of issues that are making him look like a bad #1 overall pick. I agree with your other takes. This team is not fun to watch and Casey is not the right coach to develop the young players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hart Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 21 hours ago, sabretooth said: I think we have a chicken-and-egg problem with Cade. He has a problem with inefficient behaviors and also with being passive....AND his skill set simply is not strong enough for him to be an efficient player. I think the only realistic path to improving his game is to have him be more aggressive, score more, and *then* see if he can work out the kinks. I would prefer to have Ivey handle the ball and to see Cade move off-ball more, but I'm afraid that he will disappear offensively if they do that. I agree with this. The best way forward is to keep leaning into Cade has a shooter/scorer and live with the results whatever they may be. If he ends up being a bad #1 pick, so be it. But at this point, we still need to proceed like he is our franchise player. And he's not going to be our franchise player just setting other guys up. There is enough possessions in a game to give both Ivey and Cade plenty of chances to play primarily with the ball. It's incumbent on Casey to make sure one of them is on the court at all times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 i wonder if we could pull kenny atkinson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 Atkinson would be a nice get. But he turned down a better roster (Charlotte) and city than Detroit to stay in Golden State. He supposedly had agreed to a deal in principle during the finals and backed out. My wild speculation is he was told Kerr will retire soon and Atkinson is the head coach in waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 14 hours ago, Deleterious said: Atkinson would be a nice get. But he turned down a better roster (Charlotte) and city than Detroit to stay in Golden State. He supposedly had agreed to a deal in principle during the finals and backed out. My wild speculation is he was told Kerr will retire soon and Atkinson is the head coach in waiting. Charlotte is a tire fire with a roster that seems destined for eternal mediocrity. I'm not sure why any coach would take that situation over a situation like Detroit team with tons of upside and flexibility to get much better in the coming years. Would love to get Atkinson here somehow but I think Weaver is loyal to Casey to a fault so I'm pretty he'll be here for a few more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 2 hours ago, NYLion said: Charlotte is a tire fire with a roster that seems destined for eternal mediocrity. I'm not sure why any coach would take that situation over a situation like Detroit team with tons of upside and flexibility to get much better in the coming years. Would love to get Atkinson here somehow but I think Weaver is loyal to Casey to a fault so I'm pretty he'll be here for a few more years. They had three guys average 20 ppg last year, all of them under the age of 25. They already have an all star in Ball and he is better than anyone on Detroits roster. The middle third of that roster needs improving but they were a much better roster than Detroit is right now. The Bridges situation changes things now. But Atkinson turned the job down months before that situation happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Deleterious said: They had three guys average 20 ppg last year, all of them under the age of 25. They already have an all star in Ball and he is better than anyone on Detroits roster. The middle third of that roster needs improving but they were a much better roster than Detroit is right now. The Bridges situation changes things now. But Atkinson turned the job down months before that situation happened. Of course they're better, they have a much more experienced team while the Pistons are in a rebuild. The Pistons are all about the future and they have loads of flexibility and another high draft pick to build something special if done right. The Hornets have LaMelo and ??? Where's the upside?They're right in that treadmill tier with the Knicks, Bulls and Wizards. Decent teams but nothing that indicates that they have potential for much more than playoff bubble team. Of course the Pistons are well behind those teams now but they're not built for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Cade might not be THE guy you build around...a very good and important player for you, but not the cornerstone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 cade can totally be the guy you build around. he's in his second year and he missed most of his first with injuries. he is the prototype of what you want: shooter, ball handler, wing sized, can create his own shot in multiple ways. he needs to be more consistent, obviously. but i still think he can be an all star in this league in a few years. steoh curry didnt really become STEPH CURRY until year 4. and wasnt an all star unt year 5. give cade some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 59 minutes ago, NYLion said: Of course they're better, they have a much more experienced team while the Pistons are in a rebuild. The Pistons are all about the future and they have loads of flexibility and another high draft pick to build something special if done right. The Hornets have LaMelo and ??? Where's the upside?They're right in that treadmill tier with the Knicks, Bulls and Wizards. Decent teams but nothing that indicates that they have potential for much more than playoff bubble team. Of course the Pistons are well behind those teams now but they're not built for now. They had Ball and Bridges. Rozier was only 27 last year so he was in the timeline. They also have the same flexibility as Detroit since they only have $6M more committed this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 36 minutes ago, buddha said: cade can totally be the guy you build around. he's in his second year and he missed most of his first with injuries. he is the prototype of what you want: shooter, ball handler, wing sized, can create his own shot in multiple ways. he needs to be more consistent, obviously. but i still think he can be an all star in this league in a few years. steoh curry didnt really become STEPH CURRY until year 4. and wasnt an all star unt year 5. give cade some time. Also plays above average defense. The same people complaining about Cade now are the ones who did it at the start of the year last season. How many Anthony Bennet jokes did we hear? Of course those same folks are also the ones who bitched he got robbed on the ROY vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 2 hours ago, buddha said: cade can totally be the guy you build around. he's in his second year and he missed most of his first with injuries. he is the prototype of what you want: shooter, ball handler, wing sized, can create his own shot in multiple ways. he needs to be more consistent, obviously. but i still think he can be an all star in this league in a few years. steoh curry didnt really become STEPH CURRY until year 4. and wasnt an all star unt year 5. give cade some time. it all hangs on his shooting. In two more years he's not going to gain the athleticism to become the slashing threat to the rim is he isn't now. Time will tell on the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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