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10/26/2022 7:00 EDT Atlanta Hawks vs Detroit Pistons


casimir
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Watched about 20 games last year and three games so far this year, have examined the stats up and down, and it seems rather obvious to me that this current pairing of Weaver as GM and Casey as HC is simply never going to work.

I personally think both of them completely suck, but maybe I'm wrong about one of them.

I'm glad that they have a youthful team vs. a bunch of old-timers, but there is **no doubt in my mind** that Weaver is providing sub-par talent, and Casey doesn't seem to have any acumen for developing or bringing out the best in his players individually or as a group, not on offense, not on defense. 

They are so bad individually and as a unit that it's hard to tell sometimes if the problem in a particular game or sequence is more the fault of bad talent, bad scheme, the players not trying hard enough, or a combination.

They don't shoot well (except for Boggy).  They don't rebound well (except for Duren).  They don't pass well (except for Ivey).  They turn the ball over too much and don't force enough TOs.  They don't defend well (except Duren on the weak side, and Stew handles smaller big guys pretty well), and they communicate poorly.

There isn't one aspect that is a strength or even an emerging strength.  There isn't any aspect of this team that is good enough to make me want to watch them lose most of the time. 

I like watching Boggy and Ivey, and Duren seems to be a physical type player with skills that they need. 

But the rest of the team (including Cade) is a total hot mess and completely unwatchable at this point.

Ugh. 

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

Watched about 20 games last year and three games so far this year, have examined the stats up and down, and it seems rather obvious to me that this current pairing of Weaver as GM and Casey as HC is simply never going to work.

I personally think both of them completely suck, but maybe I'm wrong about one of them.

I'm glad that they have a youthful team vs. a bunch of old-timers, but there is **no doubt in my mind** that Weaver is providing sub-par talent, and Casey doesn't seem to have any acumen for developing or bringing out the best in his players individually or as a group, not on offense, not on defense. 

They are so bad individually and as a unit that it's hard to tell sometimes if the problem in a particular game or sequence is more the fault of bad talent, bad scheme, the players not trying hard enough, or a combination.

They don't shoot well (except for Boggy).  They don't rebound well (except for Duren).  They don't pass well (except for Ivey).  They turn the ball over too much and don't force enough TOs.  They don't defend well (except Duren on the weak side, and Stew handles smaller big guys pretty well), and they communicate poorly.

There isn't one aspect that is a strength or even an emerging strength.  There isn't any aspect of this team that is good enough to make me want to watch them lose most of the time. 

I like watching Boggy and Ivey, and Duren seems to be a physical type player with skills that they need. 

But the rest of the team (including Cade) is a total hot mess and completely unwatchable at this point.

Ugh. 

Weaver completely sucks how exactly? Drafted Hayes and ??? 

Sure, Casey completely sucks but he's good for the tank so we're good with him for one more year. Weaver has done more good than bad.

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Weaver has turned SVGs pile of hot trash and broken finances into a ton of young potential and a totally clean and flexible financial situation. Getting a coach who can put these players in a better position to succeed and teach them a real NBA offense and defense would help, but it's undeniable that they're in a way better position as a franchise now then they were a few years ago.

When your team is all at their ceiling, your finances are capped, you have no likeable players, and you know your best outcome is the 8th seed, there's no reason to watch. That was the Drummond era.

Today we have a bunch of 19-22 years olds who have plenty of potential, are mostly likeable hard workers, and you have a ton of cap flexibility to start adding pieces once you see if this core you drafted works. It's a much better situation and much more fun to watch. Does it work? Time will tell.

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2 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Weaver has turned SVGs pile of hot trash and broken finances into a ton of young potential and a totally clean and flexible financial situation. Getting a coach who can put these players in a better position to succeed and teach them a real NBA offense and defense would help, but it's undeniable that they're in a way better position as a franchise now then they were a few years ago.

When your team is all at their ceiling, your finances are capped, you have no likeable players, and you know your best outcome is the 8th seed, there's no reason to watch. That was the Drummond era.

Today we have a bunch of 19-22 years olds who have plenty of potential, are mostly likeable hard workers, and you have a ton of cap flexibility to start adding pieces once you see if this core you drafted works. It's a much better situation and much more fun to watch. Does it work? Time will tell.

Undoubtedly this is better than the SVG/Dre mess.....I haven't scratched the surface of the salary cap situation, so if they are in a good position there, then great, that's one positive check mark for management.

Looking at the talent pool:

- Setting aside older players like Boggy, Burks, McGruder, and Joseph (who I like as veterans)....

- Among the younger players I like Ivey and Duren, and I have hopes of course for Cade to become a star player (though I'm having a hard time seeing it at this point) and Livers (who I think can become a very effective bench player or good starter).  Bey is clearly a very talented young guy who is a pretty efficient 15+ ppg producer. 

- Rounding out the frontcourt are Stew + Bagley.....they are athletic but haven't been efficient or effective at any point in their careers.  It's anybody's guess whether Noel can get on the court and stay there.

Weaver has GOT to find a better coach.  Casey is a nice guy and a consummate pro, and I like him, but he has never created a cohesive team or distinct identity in my time watching his teams.  Seems like we need a stronger coach who can mold this seemingly disparate group of guys into a unit, especially defensively.

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5 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Weaver has turned SVGs pile of hot trash and broken finances into a ton of young potential and a totally clean and flexible financial situation. Getting a coach who can put these players in a better position to succeed and teach them a real NBA offense and defense would help, but it's undeniable that they're in a way better position as a franchise now then they were a few years ago.

When your team is all at their ceiling, your finances are capped, you have no likeable players, and you know your best outcome is the 8th seed, there's no reason to watch. That was the Drummond era.

Today we have a bunch of 19-22 years olds who have plenty of potential, are mostly likeable hard workers, and you have a ton of cap flexibility to start adding pieces once you see if this core you drafted works. It's a much better situation and much more fun to watch. Does it work? Time will tell.

I have said next year is the breaking point for me with Weaver.  At some point, we need to start seeing progress.  Even if you say he's been unlucky, that is burden you carry in professional sports.  One team gets Peyton Manning; the other team gets Ryan Leaf. 

Within enough time, it's easy to gain cap flexibility.  Just wait out the bad contracts, which he has done.  The hard part is spending and not ending up with contracts you don't want two years later.  

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13 minutes ago, Hart said:

I have said next year is the breaking point for me with Weaver...

I was going to say I can't agree with this... I can't get on board.

 

10 minutes ago, Hart said:

Ultimately, if Weaver watches this ship sink because of Casey, that is on him also.  Casey may be the issue but Casey also has a boss who can fire him.  

 

But I do agree with this part... Weaver has to part with Casey and upgrade. Before the 2023-24 season starts. So anytime between now and next offseason.

Not a breaking point to me if he doesn't move on from Casey this next year... but I will start questioning him, certainly. We start winning in 2023-24 or Weaver is making the wrong decision if he's retaining Casey still... IMO.

 

 

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