THE GAME #118: #3 Michigan Wolverines (11-0) @ #2 Ohio State Buckeyes (11-0)

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

under harbaugh michigan has done a really good job of developing players.

lets take a minute to acknowledge how well michigan's secondary played yesterday.  we were all worries about how osu would tear us up without a great pass rush like last year.  well, that pass rush really didnt materialize but the secondary held osu's receivers in check for most of the game, including harrison, who might be the best receiver in college football.

i think this year's defense did a better job than last year's defense.

Good for M that OSU didn't have JSN. Would have been even more fun to see this game with both JSN and Corum healthy.

[buddha]

22 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Good for M that OSU didn't have JSN. Would have been even more fun to see this game with both JSN and Corum healthy.

ok debbie downer.  michigan didnt have mike morris either.

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, buddha said:

ok debbie downer.  michigan didnt have mike morris either.

why is that a downer, wouldn't you have liked to see the all the best players on the field? That is getting to be the problem with football everywhere - they are pushing schedules out beyond human endurance in pursuit of $$ and by the end of season you don't see coaches and players competing as much as medical staffs.

Morris did show up in the box, but wasn't out there much. Same for Schoonmaker I think.

Edited November 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

why is that a downer, wouldn't you have liked to see the all the best players on the field? That is getting to be the problem with football everywhere - they are pushing schedules out beyond human endurance in pursuit of $$ and by the end of season you don't see coaches and players competing as much as medical staffs.

Morris did show up in the box, but wasn't out there much. Same for Schoonmaker I think.

lol.  i'm just noting your penchant for harbaugh bashing or downplaying michigan's achievements, whether you mean to or not.

probably a bigger loss for osu was henderson being out.  that said, osu refused to consistently run the ball at michigan.  i thought they had good success when they ran between the tackles and not those silly wide pitches or quick screens they kept trying and failing.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

lol.  i'm just noting your penchant for harbaugh bashing or downplaying michigan's achievements, whether you mean to or not.

probably a bigger loss for osu was henderson being out.  that said, osu refused to consistently run the ball at michigan.  i thought they had good success when they ran between the tackles and not those silly wide pitches or quick screens they kept trying and failing.

IDK, OSU had pretty good success on the edge runs early. The diff was M apparently adapted. One thing that stood out to me was that OSU doesn't seem to make any attempt to disguise their defense, something M does almost to a fault in wanting to line up so late they sometimes get caught. OSU would bring everybody up or they wouldn't and always left it pretty obvious which.

TBH, OSU never really seemed in particularly in sync on O or D. Looked like a team expecting to win without a battle. OTOH, the near death experience against the Illini was probably just what M needed going in

That plus the lack of discipline. the PF's cost OSU big time and of course that's pure poor coaching.

[buddha]

i dont think the personal fouls are poor coaching, i think its osu's players arent used to losing and they reacted...poorly.

people are saying its john cooper and the 90s all over again.  like most historical analogies, thats not entirely accurate.  those michigan teams that were double digit underdogs to osu in the mid 90s were underachieving mediocre michigan teams beating stacked undefeated osu teams.  these last two michigan teams have been great teams that were on par with osu, not like those mid 90s 4 loss michigan clubs.

[buddha]

the one thing that is true about those analogies is that now michigan is in osu's collective head.  

[gehringer_2]

Maybe it's that Day isn't in Meyer's league as a recruiter or maybe it's just that OSU is facing all the same kinds of issues every other school is in terms of figuring out what to do next, but did you see a single really dominant, disruptive player on the defensive side of the ball for OSU? These don't seem to be your father's Buckeye's anymore. 

[buddha]

50 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Maybe it's that Day isn't in Meyer's league as a recruiter or maybe it's just that OSU is facing all the same kinds of issues every other school is in terms of figuring out what to do next, but did you see a single really dominant, disruptive player on the defensive side of the ball for OSU? These don't seem to be your father's Buckeye's anymore. 

the buckeyes have multiple 5 star kids on defense.  including JTT who was the #1 recruit in america and single handedly destroyed penn state this year.

if anything, day has recruited BETTER than urban.  the issue is he cant stop michigan's run game, they've beaten everyone else on their schedule for two years.

[buddha]

ryan day has had 4 recruiting classes and has 5 5* defensive players during that time.

i cant count hiw many 4* defensive players he's recruited, but lets just say its a lot.

that's more defensive 5*s than michigan has total 5*s.  in case youre wondering, michigan's 5*s were daxton hill, chris hinton, jj mccarthy, and will johnson.  osu had more than that in 2022 alone.

[gehringer_2]

36 minutes ago, buddha said:

the buckeyes have multiple 5 star kids on defense.  including JTT who was the #1 recruit in america and single handedly destroyed penn state this year.

if anything, day has recruited BETTER than urban.  the issue is he cant stop michigan's run game, they've beaten everyone else on their schedule for two years.

JTT is a good case in point though - one dominant game a star does not make. He may get high on some draft boards based on athletic potential like T. Walker did, but not so much based on 28 tackes and 3.5 sacks on the season.

Edited November 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

28 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

JTT is a good case in point though - one dominant game a star does not make. He may get high on some draft boards based on athletic potential like T. Walker did, but not so much based on 28 tackes and 3.5 sacks on the season.

i dont see how that supports your point that day isnt in the same class as urban as a recruiter.  ohio state has been in a class of its own in the big ten and topped only by the usual $ec suspects when it comes to recruiting since day has been there.

his issue is the failure to adjust to michigan.  michigan adjusted to him and he hasnt done the same.  i think that's on him as a coach, but the talent on the team is higher than its ever been.

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont see how that supports your point that day isnt in the same class as urban as a recruiter. 

I'll grant your point about recruiting, but to go back the idea about OSU's defensive identiy, it seems like recruiting or not, and JTT not withstanding, this OSU team doesn't seem to haved produced a Bossa type player from those recruits this year like they have so often in the past. And sure, that probably goes back to the coaching. You (the generic 'you' ) hate to have to admit it, but just because Meyer is a scumbag doesn't mean he wasn't a good head football coach.

Edited November 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[djhutch]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont see how that supports your point that day isnt in the same class as urban as a recruiter.  ohio state has been in a class of its own in the big ten and topped only by the usual $ec suspects when it comes to recruiting since day has been there.

his issue is the failure to adjust to michigan.  michigan adjusted to him and he hasnt done the same.  i think that's on him as a coach, but the talent on the team is higher than its ever been.

All the losing M has done to O over the last 20 years has made me a lot less cheeky than I used to be, but I really do think there's something to Harbaugh's quote about "Being born on 3B & thinking you hit a triple."  I believe Ryan Day is a good coach, but he is not NEARLY the coach the media thinks he is - or maybe that HE thinks he is.  There's been a smugness to his demeanor since he took over.  The Big Ten has not forced him to prove it until, as you said, M has.  Harbaugh has brought an NFL mindset to replace the kind of scheme mindset that Don Brown had.  When something isn't working, you stop doing it & try something else.  Day has not had to adjust at all for 3 years & now he's being exposed.  

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, djhutch said:

All the losing M has done to O over the last 20 years has made me a lot less cheeky than I used to be, but I really do think there's something to Harbaugh's quote about "Being born on 3B & thinking you hit a triple."  I believe Ryan Day is a good coach, but he is not NEARLY the coach the media thinks he is - or maybe that HE thinks he is.  There's been a smugness to his demeanor since he took over.  The Big Ten has not forced him to prove it until, as you said, M has.  Harbaugh has brought an NFL mindset to replace the kind of scheme mindset that Don Brown had.  When something isn't working, you stop doing it & try something else.  Day has not had to adjust at all for 3 years & now he's being exposed.  

he did change defensive co-ordinators - but maybe Knowles isn't the right guy for the job either.

Edited November 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

TBF, not that many college teams can both run and pass well. We said that given their run game, M would be as good as the passing game allowed them to be  - well they passed pretty well yesterday, and that ability to do boh is going to be hard for any college D to handle.

Edited November 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[djhutch]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

he did change defensive co-ordinators - but maybe Knowles isn't the right guy for the job either.

I was thinking more "in-game" changes, but in relation to Knowles - he strikes me as Don Brown 2.0.  He had 1 M-O - Stop the run. Don't let them do to us what they did last year.  He stacked the box & blitzed all day - That's probably what I would've done too, but when he got hit by not 1, not 2, but 3 45+ yard passes, he didn't know what to do.  He tried to adjust on the fly a bit, but had no answer.  JJ began to make inroads in the run game, & as the game went on, Knowles was shaken.  It wasn't that we were stronger & tougher - it's that we didn't marry ourselves to 1 thing.  

[buddha]

23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'll grant your point about recruiting, but to go back the idea about OSU's defensive identiy, it seems like recruiting or not, and JTT not withstanding, this OSU team doesn't seem to haved produced a Bossa type player from those recruits this year like they have so often in the past. And sure, that probably goes back to the coaching. You (the generic 'you' ) hate to have to admit it, but just because Meyer is a scumbag doesn't mean he wasn't a good head football coach.

urban meyer is one of the greatest coaches in college football history.

ryan day....is not.  at least not yet.  he's still very young and is the bead coach at a well oiled professional machine of an organization that will spend every dollar and skirt every rule in order to win.  they may yet adjust to michigan.

plus, how long does harbaugh have left?  5 years?

[Stanley70]

Yea OSU was petrified of getting paved again with Michigan going on 13 play 7 minute TD drives with 10 runs. So they played single and zero high with corners that aren't that good and blitzed a ton and got burnt. They are probably panic recruiting a few 330 pound DT's right now.

 JJ was a factor running the ball and took some shots, throwing his body into the end zone, and standing in there and getting passes off under pressure. While Stroud didn't run at all and mostly panicked when under pressure. The QB not being involved in the run game is the biggest difference between Urban and Day.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

urban meyer is one of the greatest coaches in college football history.

ryan day....is not.  at least not yet.  he's still very young and is the bead coach at a well oiled professional machine of an organization that will spend every dollar and skirt every rule in order to win.  they may yet adjust to michigan.

plus, how long does harbaugh have left?  5 years?

IDK - you don't think Michigan is up for the PSU model?

How long did PSU let Paterno hang around? 

Edited November 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

IDK - you don't think Michigan is up for the PSU model?

How long did PSU let Paterno hang around? 

michigan was pretty close to letting him walk after covid.  that said, i think harbaugh will retire when he wants to.

if they dont improve their nil game, that might be sooner rather than later.  this season will be a nice test to see of theyve made any adjustments to their transfer portal strategy.  

lets see of they can pull any oregon or notre dame recruits they lost.  or maybe a transfer or two from stanford.

[gehringer_2]

I think the question for Michigan and Harbaugh is whether he's going to get bored and lose focus or start pining for one last shot at the NFL again or whether he's settled on the thing to do he really wants to keep doing. He's always seemed like kind of a restless soul type to me.

Saban won a natty at 69? Harbaugh is 58? So if his mind doesn't wander off somewhere and he can keep bringing in good young position coaching talent I'd figure he's got a little more than 5 yrs - maybe say 10 yrs left  - if he's healthy - and keeps winning of course!  But that's a long time - who the heck knows what college football even looks like in 10yrs?

[romad1]

1 hour ago, Stanley70 said:

Yea OSU was petrified of getting paved again with Michigan going on 13 play 7 minute TD drives with 10 runs. So they played single and zero high with corners that aren't that good and blitzed a ton and got burnt. They are probably panic recruiting a few 330 pound DT's right now.

 JJ was a factor running the ball and took some shots, throwing his body into the end zone, and standing in there and getting passes off under pressure. While Stroud didn't run at all and mostly panicked when under pressure. The QB not being involved in the run game is the biggest difference between Urban and Day.

He who defends everything, defends nothing. 

--Frederick the Great (so called)

Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of men (or man). 

--George Patton

You know who was actually correct to deploy such in your face defenses was Rommel in Normandy.   He knew he couldn't move his forces around the battlefield because he had learned the Libyan and Egyptian desert that if you do not have at least air parity; having mobility doesn't help you.   Not sure how this exactly applies in this game but there is a maxim for everything. 

[Hongbit]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think the question for Michigan and Harbaugh is whether he's going to get bored and lose focus or start pining for one last shot at the NFL again or whether he's settled on the thing to do he really wants to keep doing. He's always seemed like kind of a restless soul type to me.

Saban won a natty at 69? Harbaugh is 58? So if his mind doesn't wander off somewhere and he can keep bringing in good young position coaching talent I'd figure he's got a little more than 5 yrs - maybe say 10 yrs left  - if he's healthy - and keeps winning of course!  But that's a long time - who the heck knows what college football even looks like in 10yrs?

By the 2028 election cycle, he will be out of coaching and into politics as the new face of the Michigan GOP.   

Edited November 27, 2022 by Hongbit

[gehringer_2]

30 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

By the 2028 election cycle, he will be out of coaching and into politics as the new face of the Michigan GOP.   

Yikes.