Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 BTW, Geno Smith didn't put up 48. He had two touchdowns. Goff had four but he had a costly pick six. Without that pick six, Detroit wins. Goff has since gone on one of the longest streaks in history without an INT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said: Seattle had the same record as the Lions, faded down the stretch, and Geno Smith is much more of a question mark than Goff. Yeah, but the Lions had one good half of a season. I think it's very easy, especially from the national perspective, to wonder if this was a fluke or a real turn around. I think I'd probably rank them ahead of the Seahawks personally, but I'm not going to be too up in arms about someone saying: "Prove it to me the last half of 2023 wasn't the fluke and that the first half was." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 1 minute ago, RedRamage said: Yeah, but the Lions had one good half of a season. I think it's very easy, especially from the national perspective, to wonder if this was a fluke or a real turn around. I think I'd probably rank them ahead of the Seahawks personally, but I'm not going to be too up in arms about someone saying: "Prove it to me the last half of 2023 wasn't the fluke and that the first half was." It was more than a half. It was 10 games. I mean, why isn't Seattle being asked to prove the first half wasn't a fluke and Geno Smith isn't a fluke? The Lions were close to beating the Eagles, Dolphins, Vikings and Seattle early in the season. Those close games early in the season started becoming wins by the end of the season. The Lions were the 2nd youngest team in the NFL at the start of the season. The team grew as the season went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 The Lions have been 12-11-1 in their last 24 games or about a season and a half. Not spectacular but that is a 9 win seasonal pace despite playing with the youngest roster and in many cases vastly inferior players to what they have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 17 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: The Lions have been 12-11-1 in their last 24 games or about a season and a half. Not spectacular but that is a 9 win seasonal pace despite playing with the youngest roster and in many cases vastly inferior players to what they have now. 12-11-1 is mediocre at best. lions should be favored to win the division on paper, after that? who knows? we focus solely on the lions. other teams added players too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 Seattle beat the Jets last year so they are better than the Jets this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 39 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: It was more than a half. It was 10 games. I mean, why isn't Seattle being asked to prove the first half wasn't a fluke and Geno Smith isn't a fluke? The Lions were close to beating the Eagles, Dolphins, Vikings and Seattle early in the season. Those close games early in the season started becoming wins by the end of the season. The Lions were the 2nd youngest team in the NFL at the start of the season. The team grew as the season went on. geno smith is being asked that question. so is goff. goff was awful for two years and was one of the most turnover prone qbs in the league, and then went the second half of the season without having a single turnover. is that repeatable? probably not. the lions and seahawks are in the same tier, imo. they both have weaknesses. the lions have brought in some players to address the secondary weakness, but havent really addressed their weakness in stopping the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, buddha said: 12-11-1 is mediocre at best. lions should be favored to win the division on paper, after that? who knows? we focus solely on the lions. other teams added players too. When you're playing with a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players that isn't mediocre. Normally teams like that are lucky to win 6 games, so the fact that they have held their head above water despite being such a young team is a credit to them and a reason why people are so excited about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Seattle beat the Jets last year so they are better than the Jets this year. We smoked Jacksonville so I better not see anybody put Jacksonville at or above us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 31 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: It was more than a half. It was 10 games. I mean, why isn't Seattle being asked to prove the first half wasn't a fluke and Geno Smith isn't a fluke? Because Pete Carroll and John Schneider have a proven track record that included multiple playoff victories two SB appearances and one SB victory. We also saw Geno Smith appear to play much better under Carroll while Wilson regressed significant after leaving Seattle raising the question of how good Carroll might be as a QB whisperer. Compare this to Holmes and Campbell who have a 12-21-1 record in two years. You bring up a whole lot of valid detail points which could be used to bump up the Lions stock. But this is a team that has sucked for years and now has a rookie HC and a rookie GM. And there are plenty of details that you could use to knock down the Lions too. They were close to losing against GB, in Chicago, and in NYJ (without their better QB). I don't think it's out of line at all to want to see a young team with rookie leadership prove it on the field. It's worth noting too that the ranking is that the Lions are trash. They're in the top 3rd of the NFC according to this person. That's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: We smoked Jacksonville so I better not see anybody put Jacksonville at or above us! we got smoked by carolina so i better not see anybody put carolina below us! lol. i actually think carolina will be pretty good this year, but will be held back a bit by the rookie qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 1 minute ago, RedRamage said: Because Pete Carroll and John Schneider have a proven track record that included multiple playoff victories two SB appearances and one SB victory. We also saw Geno Smith appear to play much better under Carroll while Wilson regressed significant after leaving Seattle raising the question of how good Carroll might be as a QB whisperer. Compare this to Holmes and Campbell who have a 12-21-1 record in two years. You bring up a whole lot of valid detail points which could be used to bump up the Lions stock. But this is a team that has sucked for years and now has a rookie HC and a rookie GM. And there are plenty of details that you could use to knock down the Lions too. They were close to losing against GB, in Chicago, and in NYJ (without their better QB). I don't think it's out of line at all to want to see a young team with rookie leadership prove it on the field. It's worth noting too that the ranking is that the Lions are trash. They're in the top 3rd of the NFC according to this person. That's good. It literally took Seattle overtime and horrendous officiating in their favor to beat a Rams teams without Stafford, Kupp, or Donald so don't come at me about close wins. The Lions went into Lambeau in January in a game the Packers had to win and won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 1 minute ago, buddha said: we got smoked by carolina so i better not see anybody put carolina below us! lol. i actually think carolina will be pretty good this year, but will be held back a bit by the rookie qb. Wait until you hear Seattle lost to Carolina! at Seattle! and they had over 200 yards rushing against Seattle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 Despite my arguing I don't have a problem with Seattle or Dallas being ahead of us even though I disagree, I just don't like when the reason is that they beat us last year or that the Lions need to "prove it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, buddha said: geno smith is being asked that question. so is goff. goff was awful for two years and was one of the most turnover prone qbs in the league, and then went the second half of the season without having a single turnover. is that repeatable? probably not. the lions and seahawks are in the same tier, imo. they both have weaknesses. the lions have brought in some players to address the secondary weakness, but havent really addressed their weakness in stopping the run. LOL Geno Smith had nearly double the INT rate as Goff did during the bad years, negative TD/INT Ratio, significantly lower completion percentage, significantly lower QB rating, and lower QBR. Geno Smith was literally worse at everything than Goff and never had multiple Pro Bowl seasons prior. Edited May 3, 2023 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said: LOL Geno Smith had nearly double the INT rate as Goff did during the bad years, negative TD/INT Ratio, significantly lower completion percentage, significantly lower QB rating, and lower QBR. Geno Smith was literally worse at everything than Goff. ergo the first line in my post you cited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, buddha said: ergo the first line in my post you cited. If Goff was awful, I shudder to think what Geno Smith was in New York. Goff also had a track record of playing at a high level and his floor was nowhere near Geno. Geno never played at this level at any point in his career. Goff has. There is no doubt Geno Smith is more questionable to repeat the performance. Going back to the turnover point on Goff, his INT rate has dropped since leaving McVay's offense. Stafford's has risen and Stafford lead the league in INTs in his first year in McVay's offense. Maybe it's McVay's offense if two QBs throw more INTs while playing for McVay than other coaches? Edited May 3, 2023 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 goff and geno both have questions to answer this year. i dont think that's a controversial opinion. as long as ben johnson is here, i think goff will be a fine game manager, which is what they want him to be. dont turn the ball over, manage the game, dont put the defense in a bad position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 I think the NFL is the hardest to determine from year to year on who is going to playoff teams. Too many factors and players to consider. Saying that, I don't know how anybody doesn't think the Lions will be a better team. Not considering future injuries (because no one can predict that), the Lions have gotten better at almost every where. They are one of the youngest teams that got a lot better towards the end of last year (specifically defense). No one would of wanted to play the Lions in the playoffs last year. I can guarantee that if you asked any of the top teams, would you rather play Minnesota, Seattle, NYG, TB or the Lions and all of them would of picked the Lions as there least favorite team to play. A lot can happen in the off season although I feel like they are better than all those teams. In the NFC I would only put us under Dallas, SF, and Philly until they are proven better or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 1 minute ago, buddha said: goff and geno both have questions to answer this year. i dont think that's a controversial opinion. as long as ben johnson is here, i think goff will be a fine game manager, which is what they want him to be. dont turn the ball over, manage the game, dont put the defense in a bad position. I don't think it's controversial that Goff is a much safer bet than Geno Smith who did nothing in his career until age 32. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 Goff is more than a "game manager". Those guys don't throw for 4500 yards with 30 TDs and average the 2nd most YPA of any qb in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 24 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Here's Matthew Stafford age 25 and 26 like Goff in 2019 and 2020. Game manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRamage Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 29 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: It literally took Seattle overtime and horrendous officiating in their favor to beat a Rams teams without Stafford, Kupp, or Donald so don't come at me about close wins. The Lions went into Lambeau in January in a game the Packers had to win and won. Then don't come at me with close losses. You listed the Lions "almost" wins are prove that they were a good team even when they lost... proof that they were almost there. I merely listed times the lions "almost" losses as proof that you can find negative details if you look for them. Look, I feel like we're arguing over something that's really not that important to argue over. One person has the Seahawks ranked ahead of the Lions right now. That's really no big deal. We don't know how much time this person went into looking at all the details of the teams, what they did last year and again who and with what players... all the off season moves, evaluation of the draft, etc. etc. etc. It's an off season power ranking before all the off season moves have been done (ie, June 1st cuts). It's a minor thing that we really shouldn't be putting this much effort into. I don't find it unrealistic that the Seahawks are ranked ahead of the Lions. You do think it's unrealistic. We each have our opinion on it with our own reasons. Let's not waste more time nitpicking something that's such a minor and unimportant take. I certainly don't think any less of you as a person or a fan because you feel that the Lions should be ranked ahead of the Seahawks in everyone's power rankings. I hope you don't feel less of me because I'm not upset by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 I'm trying to think of a QB in recent memory who was completely awful their entire career until breaking out at age 32? Rich Gannon is the only one that comes to mind and I wouldn't even say he was as awful as Smith before breaking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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