2023 Trade Deadline

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Granted all this, my argument still holds, which is that while he was within his rights to try to negotiate whatever he wanted,  after using a last mintue demand at the deadline after a deal had apparently been agreed to on all sides,  he shouldn't be  surprised if people label him a dishonorable actor. And of course it didn't get him want he wanted either.

As you imply here, just because Eduardo is within his rights to lead the teams along, appear to be approving of a deal, add an 11th-hour demand for an extra year, then nix the deal at the last second and turn around and blame his family for not letting him go to LA, doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be raked over the coals for it all.

McCosky's lift job here may be the indicator that the local media has permission to turn on Eduardo. The team may want him gone after all this, and if so, yes, we'll miss the production—if he can keep it up—but it's also understandable why they would.

[casimir]

7 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Would you offer ERod that one year extension at 20 million if he opts in ?

N O.  H no.  F no.

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Would you offer ERod that one year extension at 20 million if he opts in ?

I want them to have at least one good veteran pitcher next year.  If extending him is ther best way to get one, then I have no problem with it.  Right now, his remaining contract is 3 years/48 million which would likely be a bargain in the open market.  4 years/68 million would be reasonable.   There are some good free agents (maybe including Rodriguez) available which might be better and also might be more costly.  I hope they get one of them.    

[gehringer_2]

13 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 There are some good free agents (maybe including Rodriguez) available which might be better and also might be more costly.

there will be a lot of arms on the market this off season.

[KL2]

19 hours ago, romad1 said:

 

My frustration with them being in a bunch of extra inning losses is mainly because they had to fight their tails off to be in those games where being better in the first place would have avoided that outcome.  

The fact that Eric Haase can’t get a runner over and Javy Baez WON’T are just symptoms.   

You take a 96 mph cutter on the hands and hit it to second

[SoCalTiger]

38 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Would you offer ERod that one year extension at 20 million if he opts in ?

Not me. And if he opts in I'm trading him soonest possible. 

[chasfh]

40 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Would you offer ERod that one year extension at 20 million if he opts in ?

If I were confident that Eduardo would provide four more solid years of above average pitching all the way through his age 34 season and also was a lock to never again flake out in such a way that would affect the team and its performance on the field, then sure, I could be talked into it.

[oblong]

Maybe this convo should be moved to the discussion thread but I really don't want him on the team.  I think he's going to be a head case.  If he's on the team, fine, but don't build around him or plan on him being an anchor in the rotation. Don't base another deal on "Well we have him already".  

Because he might leave.

[Shinzaki]

I would try to lock him up so I could then trade him with a greater return.  Trade him to the Braves...we seem to like dealing with them (assuming they're not on the list)

[chasfh]

Given all the volume of drama around Eduardo, I doubt the market for three or four years of him would be all that strong.

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Given all the volume of drama around Eduardo, I doubt the market for three or four years of him would be all that strong.

Which would make him a bargain if he pitches to his talent level. 

[chasfh]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

Which would make him a bargain if he pitches to his talent level. 

I have my doubts, plus the flakeout potential is not a non-factor—for me, anyway.

[Longgone]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

Would you offer ERod that one year extension at 20 million if he opts in ?

Sure, that would still be a good value, and makes more sense than losing him for nothing. Probably better than you could replicate in free agency.

[romad1]

40 minutes ago, KL2 said:

You take a 96 mph cutter on the hands and hit it to second

the perverse incentive structure of a losing team is somewhat at fault.   Doing the needful to win a game isn't as important to the bottom line as doing the things that get you paid in terms of individual metrics.  

[Tiger337]

12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I have my doubts, plus the flakeout potential is not a non-factor—for me, anyway.

It is a factor, but pitchers are so fragile that I almost expect them to miss some time during the season now.  A "flake out" is no different from an injury for me.  He is a talented pitcher, but not especially durable.  

[chasfh]

20 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It is a factor, but pitchers are so fragile that I almost expect them to miss some time during the season now.  A "flake out" is no different from an injury for me.  He is a talented pitcher, but not especially durable.  

A flakeout is 180 different from an injury, for me. A guy who's 100% physically ready to pitch and who willingly removes himself from the team and remains incommunicado for months at a stretch for self-labeled "personal matters" is worse than a malingerer, in my opinion. And as though nobody else playing in the majors has their own personal issues to deal with.

The more I think about this, the more I come to the conclusion that there is no way on god's green earth Scott Harris will extend Eduardo—also, the more I believe Eduardo will be motivated to decline his opt-out and maintain his income stream, if he gets wind that nobody in the marketplace wants his services. Of course, if his agent is the only source he trusts for that kind of insight, he may never hear that and opt out anyway.

If the Tigers wanted to give Eduardo a taste of his own medicine this winter, maybe they should encourage him to opt out and explore the marketplace for his own good, while guaranteeing him that they will exceed the best offer he gets. Then, when the market craters on him and he comes back for his original deal, the Tigers tell them they've changed their minds and are going in a different direction because we want "stability for our family". 😁

Edited August 4, 2023 by chasfh

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

A flakeout is 180 different from an injury, for me. A guy who's 100% physically ready to pitch and who willingly removes himself from the team and remains incommunicado for months at a stretch for self-labeled "personal matters" is worse than a malingerer, in my opinion. And as though nobody else playing in the majors has their own personal issues to deal with.

 

 Maybe his personal problem was more serious than other people's personal problems.  Or maybe he is just entitled and lazy.  He was physically able to pitch, but maybe he was mentally unable to pitch.  Some people don't perfom well when they are dealing with mental issues.  Either way he's not helping the team when he's not playing just like he was injured.

What do you think of **** Allen?  He seems like a comparable person, with all his personal problems and contract squabbles.  Would you not want him on your team?  

[chasfh]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 Maybe his personal problem was more serious than other people's personal problems.  Or maybe he is just entitled and lazy.  He was physically able to pitch, but maybe he was mentally unable to pitch.  Some people don't perfom well when they are dealing with mental issues.  Either way he's not helping the team when he's not playing just like he was injured.

What do you think of **** Allen?  He seems like a comparable person, with all his personal problems and contract squabbles.  Would you not want him on your team?  

Yeah, what about **** Allen! 😅

If I were confident that Eduardo would provide four more solid years of above average pitching through age 34 and a lock to never again flake out like before, then sure.

Now ask me if I'm confident of that. 😉

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Maybe his personal problem was more serious than other people's personal problems. 

TBF, the Tiger FO *might* have made ERods conduct appear worse than it was - we don't know one way of the other. The normal assumption would be that no matter what is going on, he should have kept the team aware of things at least to the point where they were not out there in public saying they had no idea what the situation was. That part was pretty absurd. Again, maybe the Tiger FO was only acting cluless as a matter of PR choice  - who knows? The other choice being "Yes Eduardo is in communcation with the team but we won't/can't talk about it." Doing the former might be a lazy way to avoid continually being asked any more questions on the topic. All seems rather unlikely but if you want to give a person the benefit of the doubt you can usually find a way.

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Yeah, what about **** Allen! 😅

If I were confident that Eduardo would provide four more solid years of above average pitching through age 34 and a lock to never again flake out like before, then sure.

Now ask me if I'm confident of that. 😉

Name a pitcher like that who can be signed to an affordable 3-4 year deal.  

[Longgone]

34 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

 The normal assumption would be that no matter what is going on, he should have kept the team aware of things at least to the point where they were not out there in public saying they had no idea what the situation was. That part was pretty absurd. Again, maybe the Tiger FO was only acting cluless as a matter of PR choice  - who knows?

I don't recall the exact quote, but at the time I took it to mean simply that they hadn't gotten any update, that there was nothing new to report, not that he had gone incommunicado. It felt like it was personal and they left him alone to take care of it. I don't see the negative in that.

[chasfh]

42 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

TBF, the Tiger FO *might* have made ERods conduct appear worse than it was - we don't know one way of the other.

On the face of it, it looks to me as though the front office is doing everything to be diplomatic and even encouraging of Eduardo.

Seems to me all one has to do is add up all the pieces from the various sources over the past few days to come to the conclusion about Eduardo's conduct.

[chasfh]

55 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Name a pitcher like that who can be signed to an affordable 3-4 year deal.  

If Eduardo elects to stay on board, I will root for him as long as he is on the team. If Scott Harris signs him for an additional year, or god forbid two, I will be floored, but I will root for a great outcome for the team to win. If Eduardo opts out and Scott Harris does not pursue him, I will be fine with that as well. We're not winning next year anyway with or without him, and I suspect we will have more pitching options available to us when we are ready to win in a couple years, three at the outside.

In the meantime, we are stacked enough with pitching, including Mize due to come back and prospects like Flores and Madden knocking at the door for next year, and with a coaching staff that now has an established track record of getting the most out of their pitchers, that I could see Harris flying into next season with what we have beyond Eduardo. Or, perhaps, try to bring in a pitcher off the winter market for a less-than-long-term deal a la Lorenzen, or even make a trade for a starter on an expiring deal, versus extending an unpredictable personality with an established history of publicly acting out.

Either way, I would prefer Harris continue to focus on shoring up our hitting as his #1 goal.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by chasfh

[Tiger337]

20 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If Eduardo elects to stay on board, I will root for him as long as he is on the team. If Scott Harris signs him for an additional year, or god forbid two, I will be floored, but I will root for a great outcome for the team to win. If Eduardo opts out and Scott Harris does not pursue him, I will be fine with that as well. We're not winning next year anyway with or without him, and I suspect we will have more pitching options available to us when we are ready to win in a couple years, three at the outside.

In the meantime, we are stacked enough with pitching, including Mize due to come back and prospects like Flores and Madden knocking at the door for next year, and with a coaching staff that now has an established track record of getting the most out of their pitchers, that I could see Harris flying into next season with what we have beyond Eduardo. Or, perhaps, try to bring in a pitcher off the winter market for a less-than-long-term deal a la Lorenzen, or even make a trade for a starter on an expiring deal, versus extending an unpredictable personality with an established history of publicly acting out.

Either way, I would prefer Harris continue to focus on shoring up our hitting as his #1 goal.

 

Stacked with pitching? How many of those will make it through the end of next year without getting hurt? They seem to do a good job with pitchers but their overall run prevention is still 21st in MLB.   

I would also like to see them concentrate on position players, but the free agent market looker thinner in that area this off-season.  So, their best effort to try to be more competive next season is to add a pitcher. 

[RatkoVarda]

two would be better than just one.

Skubal - coming off major surgery; Manning - blah; Mize - coming off major surgery; Turnbull - coming off major surgery and blah; ERod - may be gone and weirdo.

Olson, Faedo, Madden, Flores, Hurter, Wentz - nice depth but who knows; really no one impactful until Jobe in 2025