Sports_Freak Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 13 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: It was only for one year. His only value was as a trade deadline asset in 2023... that's it. After the season he's a FA so... bye bye. Actually, bye bye at the deadline. I bet on Candy (mentally... the Tigers didn't... physically) having value at the deadline and Schoop having 0 value at the deadline so I wanted Schoop dropped from the roster. Just my offseason viewpoint. Candy = One Year ONLY = trade deadline asset (I thought he'd get closer to a 3.5 WAR season than the 1-ish WAR season he was being projected at...). Schoop = Negative value = dump him, November, 2022. IMO. But... what do I know...? Schoop had a guaranteed contract. Tigers aren't cutting anyone they have to pay or paying anyone to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Schoop had a guaranteed contract. Tigers aren't cutting anyone they have to pay or paying anyone to stay. We don’t know that. The previous regime cut ties with players with guaranteed contracts, and I would think Harris will too. Schoop apparently isn’t blocking anyone yet—seems the team doesn’t think Lipcius, Keith or Malloy are ready. Heck, we brought Nevin back with his really poor MLB track record. I could see Schoop getting cut in the back half of the season, if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 39 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: We don’t know that. The previous regime cut ties with players with guaranteed contracts, and I would think Harris will too. Schoop apparently isn’t blocking anyone yet—seems the team doesn’t think Lipcius, Keith or Malloy are ready. Heck, we brought Nevin back with his really poor MLB track record. I could see Schoop getting cut in the back half of the season, if necessary. Fulmer...soon to be a FA...traded. Soto...up for arbitration...traded Candelario..up for arbitration..released. Chafin...FA...unsigned And there are several other examples. So yeah, there's a track record of not paying players and either letting them walk or trading them. But a player under contract? Harris will keep them. So Schoop will be here all season unless some team is really hard up for a 2nd baseman. His trade value is as close to zero as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 45 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: ... I could see Schoop getting cut in the back half of the season, if necessary. I think this is a very real possibility. I just wish it would have been done in the offseason as it (A) Opened up a spot, just like the clamoring to jettison Candy did to open up 3B for something new... (B) But I would have rather opened up 2B instead of 3B as I thought Candy the better bet to have more value in 2023 than Schoop... and the lesser defensive position to fill is 2B instead of 3B so easier to sift bodies through there trying to find the right answer. 3B obviously is more difficult due to reaction time and arm strength & accuracy requirements. (C) Schoop is worthless, IMO. I think that now and I thought that in the winter. Dead cost, paying the money no matter what... so IMO, just drop the dead weight, meaning drop Schoop from the roster... (D) Even if a trade for Malloy is lined up... Candy can be moved at the deadline if Malloy was ready, or sooner if necessary, or not at all if we needed 3B coverage the whole season. This was an ABSOLUTE no-brainer to me... But I think Sports Freak is right in that part of the off-season decision was money (committed to Schoop versus easily no commitment to Candy) instead of logic. It was a stupid decision IMO so Harris gets one strike (instead of a gold star) against him for that. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Fulmer...soon to be a FA...traded. Soto...up for arbitration...traded Candelario..up for arbitration..released. Chafin...FA...unsigned And there are several other examples. So yeah, there's a track record of not paying players and either letting them walk or trading them. But a player under contract? Harris will keep them. So Schoop will be here all season unless some team is really hard up for a 2nd baseman. His trade value is as close to zero as it gets. The only unfair part of this is when your team is down in the dumps it is NORMAL to trade pending FA's at the deadline, and to trade relievers at any point in time because they have little value on a team at the bottom. Also, you can't blame Chafin on Harris... Chafin CHOSE to walk and CHOSE to sign with another team. That's not on Harris that's on the crap team we had in 2022. Candy, on the other hand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 13 hours ago, chasfh said: I thought given where he was and his likely rebound even to the low projection of 1.1, he was a low-risk sign. I also thought it was defensible to keep Willi. I would not have said the same thing about Schoop. 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Has anyone noticed how Hinch is getting an absolute free pass in this thread for letting Candelario go? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 14 hours ago, chasfh said: I would not have said the same thing about Schoop. Sunk cost fallacy at work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 49 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: But a player under contract? Harris will keep them. So Schoop will be here all season unless some team is really hard up for a 2nd baseman. His trade value is as close to zero as it gets. Nope, he’s gone before August 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 35 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: The only unfair part of this is when your team is down in the dumps it is NORMAL to trade pending FA's at the deadline, and to trade relievers at any point in time because they have little value on a team at the bottom. Also, you can't blame Chafin on Harris... Chafin CHOSE to walk and CHOSE to sign with another team. That's not on Harris that's on the crap team we had in 2022. Candy, on the other hand... Was Chafin even offered a fair contract in Detroit? Fulmer and Chafin were mostly effective last season and there's only one reason they weren't kept around...money. Having a low payroll and maximizing profit is the goal of any business. Let's see what happens this off-season when a few contracts come off the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 2 minutes ago, Longgone said: Nope, he’s gone before August 1 It's been almost 2 full seasons of lack of production. But yeah, he's a goner in a few weeks. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: Was Chafin even offered a fair contract in Detroit? Fulmer and Chafin were mostly effective last season and there's only one reason they weren't kept around...money. Having a low payroll and maximizing profit is the goal of any business. Let's see what happens this off-season when a few contracts come off the books. Chafin negotiated his contract and opted out after a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: Sunk cost fallacy at work More like, we gotta put a guy out there with experience who can passably play major league ball while the kids continue to develop. It's why they're not rushing Colt Keith or Justyn-Henry Malloy or Andre Lipcius or Wenceel Perez up to the majors to replace him RIGHT NOW. They're not ready, so in the meantime, we need a guy with big league experience to put out there, a guy the clock's already running on. That's Schoop. He's already paid for, and I would imagine they're still hoping against hoping to flip him for something anything at the end of the month. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though, because if he's still here on August 1st, I think there's a good chance he sits down for most of the rest of the season, basically spot-starting and pinch-hitting against lefties and being a late-inning defensive replacement at second, while Nick Maton comes back up to replace him on the field. Not for nothing, this also dovetails into why they bring in guys like Anthony Misiewicz and Zach Logue and Garret Hill when they need pitching replacements, instead of rushing up Ty Madden and Wilmer Flores and Dylan Smith: those guys are the future, they're not ready, and the org doesn't want to **** up the development process on them like Al Avila did by rushing up TORK! There's no point to starting the clock on them now. In the meantime, the business model dictates that we have to put guys on the mound when our regulars get hurt, and those first three guys all have big league experience, such as that may be. I think we can expect to see this continue all through next year for sure, and possibly into 2025. I know it's frustrating and maybe hard to understand, but that's the reality, so might as well sit back and enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Tenacious D said: Chafin negotiated his contract and opted out after a year. Doesn't really answer the question. Once Chafin opted out, did Detroit make him an offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: Doesn't really answer the question. Once Chafin opted out, did Detroit make him an offer? Does anyone know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 26 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: Does anyone know? Chafin was quoted by Petzold as saying Arizona's offer was 'better', so I guess you have to infer from that there was a Tiger's offer, but they wouldn't match/beat Az Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Chafin was quoted by Petzold as saying Arizona's offer was 'better', so I guess you have to infer from that there was a Tiger's offer, but they wouldn't match/beat Az Thanks. Not really much of a loss as it turned out. Holton replaced him for the league minimum and is cheap and controllable for a few more years, assuming he keeps his production up. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Why is Michael Fulmer being discussed in this conversation? He would be one of the worst members of this bullpen if he was still here. I get the "old friend" conversations about guys like Candy or Chafin, not Fulmer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 What are your expectations for the return at the deadline with regard to the following players? My thoughts are as follows: E-Rod (if healthy): 45+-50 prospect and some random 40ish player Lorenzen: 40+-45 player Cisnero: A RP prospect down in High-A maybe AA All I do know is people are going to complain about whatever we do get back and claim that Harris is just Avila in a different disguise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 28 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: What are your expectations for the return at the deadline with regard to the following players? My thoughts are as follows: E-Rod (if healthy): 45+-50 prospect and some random 40ish player Lorenzen: 40+-45 player Cisnero: A RP prospect down in High-A maybe AA All I do know is people are going to complain about whatever we do get back and claim that Harris is just Avila in a different disguise. Yes, we'll hear those complaints. I think his approach is a little different from Avila so far, but it remains to be seen how successful he'll be. I am trying to think positive about him until proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger2022 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 I think the GM will always be hamstrung by the penny pinching ways of Ilitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 3 hours ago, tiger2022 said: I think the GM will always be hamstrung by the penny pinching ways of Ilitch. Didn't he just spend like $200 million an offseason ago? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 21 minutes ago, KL2 said: Didn't he just spend like $200 million an offseason ago? Woah now, how dare you bring facts into this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, KL2 said: Didn't he just spend like $200 million an offseason ago? But he didn't spend it on the right players, so that's as good as not spending in the eyes of many apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted July 6, 2023 Author Share Posted July 6, 2023 (edited) wrong place Edited July 6, 2023 by RatkoVarda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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