Will Tigers Pony up for Skubal

[SoCalTiger]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

But wait—there's more:

If we trade Skubal to a team whose goal in picking him up is winning a ring in 2026, then wouldn't that get directly in our way, blocking our own goal of a ring in 2026? Especially if we were to trade him to an AL team like Seattle. Would Harris really load up a direct competitor with Tarik Skubal in order to wipe us out of the playoffs?

So, if Harris does trade Skubal, then by default logic, he is giving up on winning a ring in 2026 for the promise of a vague and indeterminate future ring in who knows what season. And that would be kneecapping our momentum toward steadily improving this team in the hopes of winning a ring in, yes, 2026. And if Harris did that, he owuld be endlessly hammered for screwing up that momentum and our chances, regardless of how promising those future prospects are.

This is why I have to conclude that there is no way on god's green earth Scott Harris trades Tarik Skubal unless the trade makes our team better in 2026, specifically—and I have trouble envisioning any way any other team would make a trade like that.

 

Do you objectively think our team as constituted with Skubal and even adding a reliever and RHH can win a ring ?

[SoCalTiger]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

yes - that or the inverse, they trade the prospect blocked by their 4 win guy and he turns out to be a 4 win guy too. I'm really curious to see whether Harris can be a guy that separates himself from the pack in player acquisition in baseball to the degree Holmes has in football. If he can pick from a team's MilB offer list with the kind of acumen that landed a McGonigle, then I'm all for a trade. But if his judgment is no better than they've been with the MLB acquisitions (Maeda, etc), then maybe not so much!

That's what we have to hope for. That he can trade as well as draft. We are yet to see that. Maybe this off season we will.

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Do you objectively think our team as constituted with Skubal and even adding a reliever and RHH can win a ring ?

I think we owe it to ourselves to give Harris a chance to constitute the team next year around Skubal that can and will compete for the ring, keeping up our forward momentum, instead of giving up on the idea that he could ever succeed at it and advocating shipping off what is far and away our most valuable piece, and essentially quitting on the idea of winning 2026.

At least that's the way it looks to me—unless Harris can pull off the magic trick of trading Skubal while more than making up for the wins he would have provided us next year, through the trade return, other trades, free agent signings, and propitious promotions of our top talent. If Harris could do that—boy, he'd be a lock for Executive of the Year, would he not?

[chasfh]

I think one of the safest bets of the offseason is that everyone here is going to hate Scott Harris even more come March 25. I wonder whether FanKings or DraftDuel can come up with odds for that?? 😉

[4hzglory]

23 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Do you objectively think our team as constituted with Skubal and even adding a reliever and RHH can win a ring ?

I think we showed this year that we have every opportunity to get to the LCS and the team that took 15 innings to beat us in game 5 was 9 outs away from the World Series.  So yes, I do think we have a chance - obviously not as good as the Dodgers, but we showed throughout the season and postseason that we can compete with anyone and having the best pitcher in baseball at the top of the rotation gives a fighting chance.  If the Rangers and Diamondbacks a couple years back could be in the World Series, our team with Skubal can get hot and do it.

[RatkoVarda]

18 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think we owe it to ourselves to give Harris a chance to constitute the team next year around Skubal that can and will compete for the ring, keeping up our forward momentum, instead of giving up on the idea that he could ever succeed at it and advocating shipping off what is far and away our most valuable piece, and essentially quitting on the idea of winning 2026.

At least that's the way it looks to me—unless Harris can pull off the magic trick of trading Skubal while more than making up for the wins he would have provided us next year, through the trade return, other trades, free agent signings, and propitious promotions of our top talent. If Harris could do that—boy, he'd be a lock for Executive of the Year, would he not?

Harris said there is no Skubal window or Skubal timeline that is influencing his decisions

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Harris said there is no Skubal window or Skubal timeline that is influencing his decisions

Meaningless management speak. Nothing else he can say really, or at least nothing else he can say which isn't even more foolish to say that that was.

[4hzglory]

47 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think we owe it to ourselves to give Harris a chance to constitute the team next year around Skubal that can and will compete for the ring, keeping up our forward momentum, instead of giving up on the idea that he could ever succeed at it and advocating shipping off what is far and away our most valuable piece, and essentially quitting on the idea of winning 2026.

At least that's the way it looks to me—unless Harris can pull off the magic trick of trading Skubal while more than making up for the wins he would have provided us next year, through the trade return, other trades, free agent signings, and propitious promotions of our top talent. If Harris could do that—boy, he'd be a lock for Executive of the Year, would he not?

I agree completely.  
 

If Harris were to trade Skubal and basically kill the forward momentum, how could it not hurt significantly the vibe the team has developed since August 2024.  That willingness to do whatever is asked of them is a huge part of why the team has played better than most expected and advanced in the playoffs 2 straight years.  You tell them, you’re not good enough so we’re going to trade away our best chance of competing in 2026 and don’t think there will be consequences?  Once that trust is broken, it’s almost impossible to get back.  We’re not just talking about Skubal the pitcher, we are talking about the entire vibe, belief, and doing whatever helps the team being affected.  It’s different even than if Skubal would get injured.  Then teams often rise up to compensate.  But if you feel the organization doesn’t believe enough in you as a group and took away your chances, that is another story altogether.

 

And don’t think it wouldn’t be a factor trying to sign guys whose top priority is winning, knowing management is willing to halt the momentum that is building for the hope that down the road, the prospects we got in return for the best pitcher in baseball may help us win.  

[1984Echoes]

49 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Harris said there is no Skubal window or Skubal timeline that is influencing his decisions

I'm going to hold him to that.

Which means to me: Take the Godfather offer from the Phillies.

Sign Dylan Cease.

Sign Kyle Tucker.

Trade Kerry Carpenter, Max Anderson, Keider Montero, and a lower ticket maybe...

For Joe Ryan.

Sign Edwin Diaz and Framber Valdez.

Easy peasy we're in the World Series.

Facing either the Phillies or Dodgers, with, or without Skubal (on one of the teams... or lost in the NLDS).

 

 

Edited October 21 by 1984Echoes

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Or if Skubal pushes a good starter out of their rotation and they send him to us. Perhaps their number four that would be our two or three after the trade or someone very close to major league ready. 

But your point is well taken and most likely  the case. 

I have trouble envision any team trading a piece of their current rotation back to us in exchange for Skubal. Unless there is a recent precedent for that?

[Tenacious D]

12 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I'm going to hold him to that.

Which means to me: Take the Godfather offer from the Phillies.

 

As long as Fredo isn’t included.  No place on this roster for any selfish and incompetent player that bangs two cocktail waitresses at a time.

 

12 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

 

 

[chasfh]

39 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Meaningless management speak. Nothing else he can say really, or at least nothing else he can say which isn't even more foolish to say that that was.

Boy, Harris sure is the anti-Avila, isn't he? That guy would blab out loud everything that ran through his head, undermining the trade value of guys he wanted to move in the process.

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Boy, Harris sure is the anti-Avila, isn't he? That guy would blab out loud everything that ran through his head, undermining the trade value of guys he wanted to move in the process.

LOL - Al sometimes gave the impression of being the last innocent man in Sodom.

Edited October 21 by gehringer_2

[Arlington]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Boy, Harris sure is the anti-Avila, isn't he? That guy would blab out loud everything that ran through his head, undermining the trade value of guys he wanted to move in the process.

Yep, Good old Al complaining that good prospect deals just weren't available anymore.

[SoCalTiger]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I think we owe it to ourselves to give Harris a chance to constitute the team next year around Skubal that can and will compete for the ring, keeping up our forward momentum, instead of giving up on the idea that he could ever succeed at it and advocating shipping off what is far and away our most valuable piece, and essentially quitting on the idea of winning 2026.

At least that's the way it looks to me—unless Harris can pull off the magic trick of trading Skubal while more than making up for the wins he would have provided us next year, through the trade return, other trades, free agent signings, and propitious promotions of our top talent. If Harris could do that—boy, he'd be a lock for Executive of the Year, would he not?

Good answer but don't you believe in Magic ?

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, 4hzglory said:

I agree completely.  
 

If Harris were to trade Skubal and basically kill the forward momentum, how could it not hurt significantly the vibe the team has developed since August 2024.  That willingness to do whatever is asked of them is a huge part of why the team has played better than most expected and advanced in the playoffs 2 straight years.  You tell them, you’re not good enough so we’re going to trade away our best chance of competing in 2026 and don’t think there will be consequences?  Once that trust is broken, it’s almost impossible to get back.  We’re not just talking about Skubal the pitcher, we are talking about the entire vibe, belief, and doing whatever helps the team being affected.  It’s different even than if Skubal would get injured.  Then teams often rise up to compensate.  But if you feel the organization doesn’t believe enough in you as a group and took away your chances, that is another story altogether.

 

And don’t think it wouldn’t be a factor trying to sign guys whose top priority is winning, knowing management is willing to halt the momentum that is building for the hope that down the road, the prospects we got in return for the best pitcher in baseball may help us win.  

I don't subscribe to this well known theory. I think talent sprinkled with good health and a bit of luck wins. Last year we traded our number 2 starting pitcher and went on a great run. Players are professionals playing hard for their future as well as the team. I don't think they sulk and despair to the point of not trying. 

[papalawrence]

I'd say there is a 94% chance Skubal starts 2026 with the Tigers. The Mets aren't trading McLean, and I believe that's the type of talent Harris will need. If the Tigers are out of contention at the deadline he likely gets traded. 

As for Harris, imho he had done an excellent job establishing his vision of a culture and it's taking shape. They were an inch from the ALCS. 

I don't know how Harris is as a negotiator for trades or FA, although he seemed to do fine with Flaherty. For all the buzz, I expect a relatively low key off season. Maybe a splurge on someone like Cease, bringing back Finnegan and another BP arm or 2. Maybe a 1-yr deal for JV, although I expect him back in SF. Probably another 1-yr to a project SP.

[Hongbit]

36 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

The Mets aren't trading McLean, and I believe that's the type of talent Harris will need. If the Tigers are out of contention at the deadline he likely gets traded. 

 

Nothing is off the table.  The Mets are desperate to win now.   That makes people do weird things.   

[Edman85]

Lol at the Tiger Territory guys listing Blade Tidwell in a Mets trade. He was traded to the Giants at the deadline.

[casimir]

5 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

I'm going to hold him to that.

 

He's going to **** a brick if he sees you at the ballpark and recognizes your avatar.

[1984Echoes]

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

As long as Fredo isn’t included.  No place on this roster for any selfish and incompetent player that bangs two cocktail waitresses at a time...

 

I'm on board with that.

[ICroupier]

9 hours ago, 4hzglory said:

I agree completely.  
 

If Harris were to trade Skubal and basically kill the forward momentum, how could it not hurt significantly the vibe the team has developed since August 2024.  That willingness to do whatever is asked of them is a huge part of why the team has played better than most expected and advanced in the playoffs 2 straight years.  You tell them, you’re not good enough so we’re going to trade away our best chance of competing in 2026 and don’t think there will be consequences?  Once that trust is broken, it’s almost impossible to get back.  We’re not just talking about Skubal the pitcher, we are talking about the entire vibe, belief, and doing whatever helps the team being affected.  It’s different even than if Skubal would get injured.  Then teams often rise up to compensate.  But if you feel the organization doesn’t believe enough in you as a group and took away your chances, that is another story altogether.

 

And don’t think it wouldn’t be a factor trying to sign guys whose top priority is winning, knowing management is willing to halt the momentum that is building for the hope that down the road, the prospects we got in return for the best pitcher in baseball may help us win.  

Lordy, we wouldn't want to mess with the vibe of a team that completely **** the bed in a historic meltdown.

[chasfh]

16 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Good answer but don't you believe in Magic ?

I remember that guy when he was at Everett. All over the Free press even during high school. Hard not to believe in a guy like that.

[chasfh]

16 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

I don't subscribe to this well known theory. I think talent sprinkled with good health and a bit of luck wins. Last year we traded our number 2 starting pitcher and went on a great run. Players are professionals playing hard for their future as well as the team. I don't think they sulk and despair to the point of not trying. 

People tend to have a strong belief in self-determination, that sheer talent and hard work are all you need to succeed, so I agree that they tend to vastly underrate the impact that health and luck—which themselves are closely related—have on the final results. 

[papalawrence]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I remember that guy when he was at Everett. All over the Free press even during high school. Hard not to believe in a guy like that.

Got to see him play his senior year. Had a great Dr J afro and he scored 32 points