9/23/25 7:05 Tigers @ Guardians

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Up until the last month or so, I think the Tigers have performed above their talent level during Hinch's tenure.  It's been an awful stretch, but I think firing him would be a knee jerk reaction and a mistake.  

If Ilitch fires Harris and or A.J. for nothing more than how this season ends, I will despair for the future of this franchise.

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

Reporter: “Tigers had 19ks”

Riley: “It is what it is”

 

bro, cmon.  

I think it’s just the frustration of being asked the same question about the same thing over and over. Riley just wants that part of it to be all done. It’s not a good look, but not everyone can handle themselves with the media flawlessly.

[kdog]

The collapse of the offense is staggering. No slugging, no clutch hitting, just a lot of whiffs and outs. I don't get it. I think their belief in platoon magic was wishful thinking.

And because the core hitters have slumped so much, you can't carry boat anchors like Meadows, Baez, Sweeney, and no Mckinstry.

I understand why the pitching is bad..and I have real questions on how they fix it next year.

[romad1]

Kriley needs to spend the offseason turning himself into BBriley

[RatkoVarda]

for all or most of AJ's time as manager, they have played as good as expected based on their talent level.

from August 24 through August 25, they played better than one would have expected.

this ******* crap, is about as bad as one can expect, I don't think they can play any worse, and the 6th inning showed they have a lot of bad juju.

they have 5 games to pull out of this death spiral, and there is no reason to think they will

[ICroupier]

9 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

Agreed but like statistics the underlying "cracks" can't be ignored. We benefited by some players playing over their skies for half a season and as we draw to a close we do not have a third baseman, shortstop , second baseman or  leadoff hitter. Those are gaping holes that a Skubul trade could help fill IF the decision is made to "retool" this team. 

Ask yourself if you think this team as constituted can return after such a historic collapse. I do not have the answer but many significant changes need to be made and Skubul has only one year left and has lost two years in a row against Cleveland when it mattered. 

Really tough off season ahead. Should be interesting. 

Completely agree. This team is severely flawed. You mention the lack of a leadoff hitter, which is true and one of the biggest issues. But the full-scale of the problem is 1 - 3. 

If we don't re-sign Torres, we'll have a gaping hole at #2. And what the team desperately needs is a true #3 hitter - a smart, high contact, high average guy (our Jose Ramirez). 

Based on current roster, I don't think we have any of those guys on our team. There was hope for Meadows, but I absolutely don't trust him at lead off at this point. There was hope Riley was our #3 hitter, and we now no that's not the case. And we have another 2 years to wait to see if McGonigle is that guy.

We need to fill those top 3 spots in our lineup, and we need a #2 starter. And once they don't re-sign Skubal, we'll need a #1 starter, as well.

Not sure how you fill all these holes, but Harris better get to work. Continues inactivity and/or bad signings on his part will put this team into a complete tear down.

[chasfh]

Maybe Al Avila's talent wasn't the way to win after all? 😉 

Edited yesterday at 01:25 PM by chasfh

[Tigermojo]

57 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Maybe Al Avila's talent wasn't the way to win after all? 😉 

Fire Avila!

[casimir]

17 hours ago, diaspora04 said:

Did they give MWG some sort of signal at Comerica Park to start this thread himself?  A significant look?  A nod?

I believe there was white smoke from a chimney.

[gehringer_2]

7 hours ago, Klondike said:

I wish we could point our finger at some bad apples in the club house

They effectively lost 3/5 of the starting staff they thought they had - Jobe, Olson, and Flaherty turned into a pumpkin. That alone was going to be very hard to overcome, but they managed to do just that because they had some offensive players playing at outlier levels for their talent. Now it's all regressed to mean values, a couple of BP pitchers have done what BP pitchers do (be inconstent) and on top of that they are psychologically shell-shocked as a team. That last part is up to Hinch to fix and so far he appears to be failing. Leyland had his flaws but this is probably what he would have been good at. I don't see Hinch as having the kind of personality that can lift a room. And to be fair, a manager probably doesn't need that 99% of the time, but it's needed now.

Edited yesterday at 05:24 PM by gehringer_2

[CMRivdogs]

6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

They effectively lost 3/5 of the starting staff they thought they had - Jobe, Olson, and Flaherty turned into a pumpkin. That alone was going to be very hard to overcome, but they managed to do just that because they had some offensive players playing at outlier levels for their talent. Now it's all regressed to mean values, a couple of BP pitchers have done what BP pitchers do (be inconstent) and on top of that they are psychologically shell-shocked as a team. That last part is up to Hinch to fix and so far he appears to be failing. Leyland had his flaws but this is probably what he would have been good at. I don't see Hinch as having the kind of personality that can lift a room. And to be fair, a manager probably doesn't need that 99% of the time, but it's needed now.

They need a Dan Campbell style pep talk

[HugoD]

6 hours ago, Klondike said:

I wish we could point our finger at some bad apples in the club house or even a lack of effort. I don't see it. I really think they all are trying and want to win badly. This goes right back to the front office. Either they knew this was not a great team and didn't make any moves or just superficial ones at the trade deadline as if it would have made a difference. Or they thought they had it made and no need to make drastic changes. Wow, what a misstep either way. 

Yeah, this is where I'm at. To be fair, I kind of thought the lack of splash at the deadline wouldn't impact their  chances at making postseason. Whether or not it lessened their potential postseason success was harder to guess, as it's a bit of a crapshoot anyways. I never ruled out the Tigers having an extended streak of bad play, but didn't think it would coincide with either Cleveland or KC playing out of their minds. I mean the odds of both occurring were infinitesimal, literally. 

Having said that, some of the takes on here are over the top as well. For example, the "they don't care / are not trying" thing is tired.  Often times it can be due to trying too hard, which doesn't work so well in baseball.  I think anyone who's actually been "in the arena" with any type of team( whether in sports or business) knows it's not that simple.

With regard to the decision makers and leaders, sometimes they're just wrong.  Good ones admit it, reflect and adjust.  If they don't, they will indeed lose their position (which will at least satisfy the bloodlust of the mob 😁).

Going forward, a few more proven bats are a must, as well as more SP depth.  It's foolhardy to think that you don't need 8 quality SP in this day and age.

 

[Adullin]

I don't know what pisses me off more.  The umps strike zone being 4 inches wider on all sides or the pathetic shot lucky infield hits Cleveland got.

[tiger2022]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

Maybe Al Avila's talent wasn't the way to win after all? 😉 

Thankfully, the Tigers have the amazing Harris who made all the big moves like signing Alex Cobb and trading for game changers like Charlie Morton and Chris Paddack to put the team over the top.  Genius moves. 

 

[Sports_Freak]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm beginning to think that with the pitching staff so shattered, Flaherty more likely to either bail or just be bad, Greene having plateaued, Meadows looking like he isn't an MLB hitter, Torkelson's ceiling locking in at about an 800 OPS (IOW good player, but not a great one), McKinstry having come to earth, Torres gone, I'm having trouble seeing them being a >500 team next season. So maybe they get a boost from Anderson or McGonigle by mid-season, still doesn't help the hole the pitching will be in.

Look no further than Minnesota or Baltimore from 2024. Both were playoff teams until crashing late in the season. The Tigets overtook the Twins while Baltimore exited the playoffs in the wildcard round. Both teams followed that up with a horrible season this year. They kept up the losing. Is this what's in store for Detroit? Is our September the new norm? We're going to be a .250 winning % team? 2026 may be a very long season.

[casimir]

46 minutes ago, Adullin said:

I don't know what pisses me off more.  The umps strike zone being 4 inches wider on all sides or the pathetic shot lucky infield hits Cleveland got.

I'd prefer pathetic infield hits over pathetic strikeouts from my offense any day.

[Sports_Freak]

6 hours ago, chasfh said:

If Ilitch fires Harris and or A.J. for nothing more than how this season ends, I will despair for the future of this franchise.

But do you agree changes need to be made? At least bringing in new hitting coaches? Something has to give, keeping the status quo feels like it would be a mistake.

[Sports_Freak]

29 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

Thankfully, the Tigers have the amazing Harris who made all the big moves like signing Alex Cobb and trading for game changers like Charlie Morton and Chris Paddack to put the team over the top.  Genius moves. 

 

But he released Maeda. Maybe he out a Bobby Layne type curse on us?

[tiger2022]

50 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

But do you agree changes need to be made? At least bringing in new hitting coaches? Something has to give, keeping the status quo feels like it would be a mistake.

The players should know how to hit.  A hitting coach can only do so much with guys like Jace Jung and Trey Sweeney.  They can't teach them talent.

And besides maybe they have helped some of the guys with their mechanics, etc.  We really don't know, and just changing for the sake of change doesn't seem like the best idea 

Besides, Detroit is 12th in the majors for OPS and 16th in BA.  And it's not like their lineup is killer's row.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, tiger2022 said:

Thankfully, the Tigers have the amazing Harris who made all the big moves like signing Alex Cobb and trading for game changers like Charlie Morton and Chris Paddack to put the team over the top.  Genius moves. 

 

Please tell us some of the genius moves Harris should have made that would have prevented this, and please name names. I’m not initially opposed to you what you’re suggesting, I just want to understand what you’re seeing that they’re missing.  

Edited 22 hours ago by chasfh

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

But do you agree changes need to be made? At least bringing in new hitting coaches? Something has to give, keeping the status quo feels like it would be a mistake.

You might be right that we might benefit from a fresh set of coaching eyes, but I think what this team needs more than anything else is (1) better players and (2) healthy players. 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

But he released Maeda. Maybe he out a Bobby Layne type curse on us?

Please make a Jobu joke. That would make my day. 😃

[Sports_Freak]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You might be right that we might benefit from a fresh set of coaching eyes, but I think what this team needs more than anything else is (1) better players and (2) healthy players. 

If Riley wants to remain as our #3 hitter, he has to cut down on the strikeouts. Even if it means sacrificing some of his power. 200 strikeouts per season is just way too many...

And Harris must start making meaningful trades. Use some of that minor league talent to get us major league talent. They will be more expensive, salary wise, but that's the cost if you wanna win.

As for free agents? No more of these bargain bin rejects. Players coming off of injuries, bottom feeder teams rejects or players in prove it contracts. Actual good players who can come in here and help this team, in 2026. Not having bullpen tryouts deep into September.

I don't see any of this getting done. The bean counters will say it's too expensive. Heck, I'm still waiting on them to spend the Cabrera money we were told was coming off the books to spend. 

[tiger2022]

42 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Please tell us some of the genius moves Harris should have made that would have prevented this, and please name names. I’m not initially opposed to you what you’re suggesting, I just want to understand what you’re seeing that they’re missing.  

Your comment seemed to imply that Avila was worthless as a GM.  I wasn't a huge fan, but it was his guy's that took the team to the playoffs last year and had the best record in baseball until a month ago.  Other than Torres, Flaherty, and the bullpen (which has a high turnover rate), every player that has positively contributed anything over the last 2 years has been an Avila player.

Harris has virtually done nothing to help the mlb roster at all over the last 2 years.  Other than Torres, his FA signings have been awful if they even saw the field at all, sold at last year's deadline (which was fine), got Trey Sweeney, and got 2 of the worst starters in mlb at the deadline this year.

I am pretty sure he could have did virtually anything else and it would have turned out better.

He talks a great game for sure.

 

Edited 22 hours ago by tiger2022

[SoCalTiger]

30 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You might be right that we might benefit from a fresh set of coaching eyes, but I think what this team needs more than anything else is (1) better players and (2) healthy players. 

That's it. Pretty simple. It's too easy to look back in hindsight and place blame. Evan "Pretcel" is twisting a narrative that Boras made two offers to Detroit late for Bregman and all we needed to do was say yes as if Boras wouldn't have taken that to another team for sweetening ?   Something he does like always. Bregman wasn't coming here and there wasn't any deadline deal fix. Talent seeks it's own level very fast when injuries mount and pressure builds.